8 ms·

That's not really about the review process, but about making one of the biggest mistakes you can make: After you know your manager doesn't like you, you didn't

by hibikir 10y ago

That's not really about the review process, but about making one of the biggest mistakes you can make: After you know your manager doesn't like you, you didn't do everything in your power to either switch teams or change companies. Nothing good will come out of working for a manager that doesn't like you. You'll get worse reviews than you deserve and worse raises. You'll get less exposure to other parts of the company: Every second you spend in that situation is a second wasted. That said, I am absolutely not putting the blame on you here. A manager that doesn't like one of their reports should either get over it or do their best to ship them to a place where they'll be better appreciated. The tech industry is full of terrible managers though, and you are probably not going to make yours better. So the real rule when looking for new jobs is to avoid places where they hire first and do allocations later, as your picture of what the company is at interview time might be completely different than what you'll find on day one.

deleted 10y ago
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- deleted 10y ago
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IndianAstronaut 10y ago
>So the real rule when looking for new jobs is to avoid places where they hire first and do allocations later This is an issue with big banks like Capital One. The management culture is absolutely awful there and they hold a tremendous amount of power and of course abuse that power as well as abuse the workers.
- del82 10y ago
  Just to add another view here: I'm currently a Data Scientist at Capital One and enjoy it quite a bit. I've found management to be open, supportive, and invested in my and my coworkers' success and development. They also allow and encourage people to change teams within the company, so if you find yourself in a situation that's not working out, you can move to another team. I've also not seen anybody leave the company on bad terms. Of course I'm sure that happens, and I'm sure there are bad managers here as everywhere. I'm sorry that you had such a negative experience.
  - IndianAstronaut 10y ago
    The company culture tries to go in a good direction, but it fails at the individual manager level. From people I have talked to, this is not just me but widespread, especially financial services in Plano, Tx. I get yelled at on a weekly basis. Belittling is comon too, such as being told "you're not that smart and this isn't rocket science". Managers are non technical managing a technical project and micromanagement is the norm.
  - jk563 10y ago
    I've seen both sides. I used to work for Capital One Europe, the UK side of the business that currently only does credit cards, until last year. I'd seen a mixture of some people leaving on good terms and some on bad terms, with no obvious correlation to performance. Personally, I left on good terms for a new role elsewhere. I'd suggest when you're talking about a company of sufficient size; there are always going to be a mixture of those leaving on good terms and those not.
  - qHack 10y ago
    You're a dev. Most rules don't apply to devs
irascible 10y ago
IMO the majority of managers SUCK. Thankfully I've had some GREAT ones, so I can tell the difference now. If they suck due to non-malicious ineptitude, it's usually pretty bearable, and you can self manage your way around them.. if they suck as a human being.. wooo buddy, time to bounce. A good manager is both a buffer and a lubricant. They pave the runway, and get out of the way.. and then make you feel good about what you do, while understating their own contribution.. ( and hopefully get their fuzzies from the business stakeholders, who see the productivity and progress gains. ) Shout outs to all the good managers out there! :D
NhanH 10y ago
> So the real rule when looking for new jobs is to avoid places where they hire first and do allocations later, as your picture of what the company is at interview time might be completely different than what you'll find on day one. Oh hey that's actually a whole lot of big corps ... most prominently Google, isn't it?
- bitL 10y ago
  The guy you go to lunch with during your on-site interview @Google is most likely the one that becomes your boss if you are hired.
  - akavi 10y ago
    This isn't true to my knowledge (I work at google). It's usually just another person from the interviewer pool. Decent chance you'll never see them or any of the other interviewers again after joining.
  - wp1 10y ago
    FTFY: The guy you go to lunch with during your on-site interview @Google is most likely the one who hasn't completed interview training yet.
    - wattt 10y ago
      FTFY: the PERSON you go to lunch with...
      - jimmywanger 10y ago
        FTFY, guy and dude are pretty much asexual references for a person you don't know who you had a personal interaction with, at least in California. "Who did you have lunch with? Oh, some dude." Try not to language police here. You're not bringing anything to the discussion.
        iron0012 10y ago
deleted 10y ago
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protomyth 10y ago
> That's not really about the review process, but about making one of the biggest mistakes you can make: After you know your manager doesn't like you, you didn't do everything in your power to either switch teams or change companies. The biggest career advice you can take: it never gets better, there is no good fight, and you should flee to save yourself. I expect the parent post [edit: iamleppert] was blameless, but that won't save you in most companies. I dream of a company that actually gives a crap about the people writing their code, but HR / Management will always back the a??hole to preserve the company. Maybe instead of hiring widget managers they would find people who have "shipped" creative endeavors (TV Shows, plays, etc.). Don't know if it would work, but it cannot be worse.
- umanwizard 10y ago
  > The biggest career advice you can take: it never gets better, there is no good fight, and you should flee to save yourself. This is demonstrably false since a lot of people like their jobs (that includes me and, anecdotally, most of the people I work with)
  - traek 10y ago
    I think the unwritten qualification is "If it's a bad environment". "If it's a bad environment -- it never gets better, there is no good fight, and you should flee to save yourself." It's very possible to find places that are good to work at. It's highly unlikely for a shitty environment to get significantly better.
    - protomyth 10y ago
      Yes. you are correct. Since I was replying to someone who was in a bad environment, I was referring to that case. > It's very possible to find places that are good to work at. It's highly unlikely for a shitty environment to get significantly better. Yep.
      - umanwizard 10y ago

by hibikir 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

IndianAstronaut 10y ago

>So the real rule when looking for new jobs is to avoid places where they hire first and do allocations later This is an issue with big banks like Capital One. The management culture is absolutely awful there and they hold a tremendous amount of power and of course abuse that power as well as abuse the workers.

del82 10y ago
Just to add another view here: I'm currently a Data Scientist at Capital One and enjoy it quite a bit. I've found management to be open, supportive, and invested in my and my coworkers' success and development. They also allow and encourage people to change teams within the company, so if you find yourself in a situation that's not working out, you can move to another team. I've also not seen anybody leave the company on bad terms. Of course I'm sure that happens, and I'm sure there are bad managers here as everywhere. I'm sorry that you had such a negative experience.
- IndianAstronaut 10y ago
  The company culture tries to go in a good direction, but it fails at the individual manager level. From people I have talked to, this is not just me but widespread, especially financial services in Plano, Tx. I get yelled at on a weekly basis. Belittling is comon too, such as being told "you're not that smart and this isn't rocket science". Managers are non technical managing a technical project and micromanagement is the norm.
- jk563 10y ago
  I've seen both sides. I used to work for Capital One Europe, the UK side of the business that currently only does credit cards, until last year. I'd seen a mixture of some people leaving on good terms and some on bad terms, with no obvious correlation to performance. Personally, I left on good terms for a new role elsewhere. I'd suggest when you're talking about a company of sufficient size; there are always going to be a mixture of those leaving on good terms and those not.
- qHack 10y ago
  You're a dev. Most rules don't apply to devs

irascible 10y ago

IMO the majority of managers SUCK. Thankfully I've had some GREAT ones, so I can tell the difference now. If they suck due to non-malicious ineptitude, it's usually pretty bearable, and you can self manage your way around them.. if they suck as a human being.. wooo buddy, time to bounce. A good manager is both a buffer and a lubricant. They pave the runway, and get out of the way.. and then make you feel good about what you do, while understating their own contribution.. ( and hopefully get their fuzzies from the business stakeholders, who see the productivity and progress gains. ) Shout outs to all the good managers out there! :D

NhanH 10y ago

> So the real rule when looking for new jobs is to avoid places where they hire first and do allocations later, as your picture of what the company is at interview time might be completely different than what you'll find on day one. Oh hey that's actually a whole lot of big corps ... most prominently Google, isn't it?

bitL 10y ago
The guy you go to lunch with during your on-site interview @Google is most likely the one that becomes your boss if you are hired.
- akavi 10y ago
  This isn't true to my knowledge (I work at google). It's usually just another person from the interviewer pool. Decent chance you'll never see them or any of the other interviewers again after joining.
- wp1 10y ago
  FTFY: The guy you go to lunch with during your on-site interview @Google is most likely the one who hasn't completed interview training yet.
  - wattt 10y ago
    FTFY: the PERSON you go to lunch with...
    - jimmywanger 10y ago
      FTFY, guy and dude are pretty much asexual references for a person you don't know who you had a personal interaction with, at least in California. "Who did you have lunch with? Oh, some dude." Try not to language police here. You're not bringing anything to the discussion.
      - iron0012 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

protomyth 10y ago

> That's not really about the review process, but about making one of the biggest mistakes you can make: After you know your manager doesn't like you, you didn't do everything in your power to either switch teams or change companies. The biggest career advice you can take: it never gets better, there is no good fight, and you should flee to save yourself. I expect the parent post [edit: iamleppert] was blameless, but that won't save you in most companies. I dream of a company that actually gives a crap about the people writing their code, but HR / Management will always back the a??hole to preserve the company. Maybe instead of hiring widget managers they would find people who have "shipped" creative endeavors (TV Shows, plays, etc.). Don't know if it would work, but it cannot be worse.

umanwizard 10y ago
> The biggest career advice you can take: it never gets better, there is no good fight, and you should flee to save yourself. This is demonstrably false since a lot of people like their jobs (that includes me and, anecdotally, most of the people I work with)
- traek 10y ago
  I think the unwritten qualification is "If it's a bad environment". "If it's a bad environment -- it never gets better, there is no good fight, and you should flee to save yourself." It's very possible to find places that are good to work at. It's highly unlikely for a shitty environment to get significantly better.
  - protomyth 10y ago
    Yes. you are correct. Since I was replying to someone who was in a bad environment, I was referring to that case. > It's very possible to find places that are good to work at. It's highly unlikely for a shitty environment to get significantly better. Yep.
    - umanwizard 10y ago