4 ms·

The graph of epipen pricing over time at the bottom of the article is jaw dropping. "Did we get in trouble yet? No? Add another 10% then". Only imaginary books

by gefh 10y ago

The graph of epipen pricing over time at the bottom of the article is jaw dropping. "Did we get in trouble yet? No? Add another 10% then". Only imaginary books on Amazon have price curves like that.

refurb 10y ago
It's all how the system works. Take a look at this graph... https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cs_lbJiHVkQ/VxV92flRB1I/AAAAAAAAKMM/cuaD4NQx2FI9CUIMR2KUReOsQLlVI8DBACLcB/s1600/IMS-Price_Growth-2011-2015.png https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cs_lbJiHVkQ/VxV92flRB1I/AAAAAAAAK... This past year list prices have gone up 12.4%, but companies only capture 2.8% of that. Which is about inflation. Where is that other money going? You may want to ask your insurance company.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- nitrogen 10y ago
  Something is suspicious about a "net growth" chart that doesn't go below 0% ever.
  - refurb 10y ago
    Why? I'm assuming if you looked at say the auto industry you'd see the same trend as net prices rise to account for inflation.
    - cmdrfred 10y ago
      I think he means inflation adjusted. I feel the same way about any large public firm that beats Standard and Poors for decades. It seems suspicious.
fastball 10y ago
Supply and demand?
- JshWright 10y ago
  No, this is not an 'ideal' market. Mylan was able to exert significant control over the demand by getting recommendations changed (you now need two EpiPens, rather than one), and getting EpiPens required in many schools, etc.
  - hga 10y ago
    I can't imagine anyone recommending having less than two pens: what if one fails due to a manufacturing flaw, user error (e.g. it would suck to fumble it in the heat of action and drop it in an unacceptable location), etc.? And isn't a second dose sometimes needed? I don't know the details, but I do know my sister always carried two for her eldest (past tense because he's now in college and presumably carrying them himself now).
    - FireBeyond 10y ago
      And state legislation mandating that medic units carry multiple EpiPens. Medic units, that have trained personnel, that have all the equipment to draw up Epi from a $3 vial themselves, who are already on scene. This leads to my county alone having to throw away $130,000/yr of EpiPens that don't get used before they expire. Because the state legislates that we're required to carry them.
      - JshWright 10y ago
        What state is that? We just carry epi...
- yitchelle 10y ago
  Maybe but so are many other essential medications. Is the subsidisation by the Goverment the answer?
koolba 10y ago
> The graph of epipen pricing over time at the bottom of the article is jaw dropping. "Did we get in trouble yet? No? Add another 10% then". Only imaginary books on Amazon have price curves like that. Looks perfectly reasonable to me. Captive market, zero competition, reasonably fixed demand, and (best of all) disconnect between the person making the purchasing decisions and the one actually footing the bill. This is the healthcare system our elected representatives have created for us. Either embrace it (which I guess means investing in an overweight portfolio of pharma companies) or send them a message to correct the core of the problem.
- yodsanklai 10y ago
  > This is the healthcare system our elected representatives have created for us. This reminds me of Martin Shkreli congress hearing [1]. A case of politicians blaming others for their own bad decisions. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPIQ_gyiHag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPIQ_gyiHag
  - powertower 10y ago
    Its a media show... The drug in question only applies to 3000 people, has no patent on it (anyone can manufacture it), is currently the lowest price in its category, costs $20 if you have insurance, is free if you have no insurance. They are talking about impoverished women with AIDS in Africa - and the drug company only has a license for the US, the drug itself has nothing to do with AIDS, and is free for half the patients and a $20 co-pay for the other half.
    - FireBeyond 10y ago
      This is what Shkreli has counted on you believing. The cost is NOT $20. The co-pay is. The amount paid by your insurer is well into the four digits. Your insurer isn't an endowment, it isn't a charity. Notwithstanding a few percent ROI on investing premiums, the only person paying these four digits is you. Or your employer. It's just amortized and spread among a group. "It's not that bad, it's really only $20" is the big trick here. A much higher amount is being billed, and paid, even after negotiation. It's not coming from a magic money fairy.
draker 10y ago
Forbes has an interesting article about the pricing, specifically the impact after the introduction of the competing "Auvi-Q" product. The second page goes into detail about the rebates and discounts given to pharmacy benefit managers which partially explains the list price increases. Article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2016/08/30/the-consumer-rip-off-at-the-heart-of-the-epipen-scandal/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2016/08/30/the-con...

by gefh 10y ago

The graph of epipen pricing over time at the bottom of the article is jaw dropping. "Did we get in trouble yet? No? Add another 10% then". Only imaginary books on Amazon have price curves like that.

refurb 10y ago

It's all how the system works. Take a look at this graph... https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cs_lbJiHVkQ/VxV92flRB1I/AAAAAAAAKMM/cuaD4NQx2FI9CUIMR2KUReOsQLlVI8DBACLcB/s1600/IMS-Price_Growth-2011-2015.png https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cs_lbJiHVkQ/VxV92flRB1I/AAAAAAAAK... This past year list prices have gone up 12.4%, but companies only capture 2.8% of that. Which is about inflation. Where is that other money going? You may want to ask your insurance company.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
nitrogen 10y ago
Something is suspicious about a "net growth" chart that doesn't go below 0% ever.
- refurb 10y ago
  Why? I'm assuming if you looked at say the auto industry you'd see the same trend as net prices rise to account for inflation.
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    I think he means inflation adjusted. I feel the same way about any large public firm that beats Standard and Poors for decades. It seems suspicious.

fastball 10y ago

Supply and demand?

JshWright 10y ago
No, this is not an 'ideal' market. Mylan was able to exert significant control over the demand by getting recommendations changed (you now need two EpiPens, rather than one), and getting EpiPens required in many schools, etc.
- hga 10y ago
  I can't imagine anyone recommending having less than two pens: what if one fails due to a manufacturing flaw, user error (e.g. it would suck to fumble it in the heat of action and drop it in an unacceptable location), etc.? And isn't a second dose sometimes needed? I don't know the details, but I do know my sister always carried two for her eldest (past tense because he's now in college and presumably carrying them himself now).
  - FireBeyond 10y ago
    And state legislation mandating that medic units carry multiple EpiPens. Medic units, that have trained personnel, that have all the equipment to draw up Epi from a $3 vial themselves, who are already on scene. This leads to my county alone having to throw away $130,000/yr of EpiPens that don't get used before they expire. Because the state legislates that we're required to carry them.
    - JshWright 10y ago
      What state is that? We just carry epi...
yitchelle 10y ago
Maybe but so are many other essential medications. Is the subsidisation by the Goverment the answer?

koolba 10y ago

> The graph of epipen pricing over time at the bottom of the article is jaw dropping. "Did we get in trouble yet? No? Add another 10% then". Only imaginary books on Amazon have price curves like that. Looks perfectly reasonable to me. Captive market, zero competition, reasonably fixed demand, and (best of all) disconnect between the person making the purchasing decisions and the one actually footing the bill. This is the healthcare system our elected representatives have created for us. Either embrace it (which I guess means investing in an overweight portfolio of pharma companies) or send them a message to correct the core of the problem.

yodsanklai 10y ago
> This is the healthcare system our elected representatives have created for us. This reminds me of Martin Shkreli congress hearing [1]. A case of politicians blaming others for their own bad decisions. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPIQ_gyiHag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPIQ_gyiHag
- powertower 10y ago
  Its a media show... The drug in question only applies to 3000 people, has no patent on it (anyone can manufacture it), is currently the lowest price in its category, costs $20 if you have insurance, is free if you have no insurance. They are talking about impoverished women with AIDS in Africa - and the drug company only has a license for the US, the drug itself has nothing to do with AIDS, and is free for half the patients and a $20 co-pay for the other half.
  - FireBeyond 10y ago
    This is what Shkreli has counted on you believing. The cost is NOT $20. The co-pay is. The amount paid by your insurer is well into the four digits. Your insurer isn't an endowment, it isn't a charity. Notwithstanding a few percent ROI on investing premiums, the only person paying these four digits is you. Or your employer. It's just amortized and spread among a group. "It's not that bad, it's really only $20" is the big trick here. A much higher amount is being billed, and paid, even after negotiation. It's not coming from a magic money fairy.

draker 10y ago

Forbes has an interesting article about the pricing, specifically the impact after the introduction of the competing "Auvi-Q" product. The second page goes into detail about the rebates and discounts given to pharmacy benefit managers which partially explains the list price increases. Article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2016/08/30/the-consumer-rip-off-at-the-heart-of-the-epipen-scandal/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2016/08/30/the-con...