4 ms·

In my experience distributed company is best if you want diverse team from start. I worked at company where 70% of engineers were women.

by jkot 10y ago

FT_intern 10y ago
The percent of female CS graduates is ~20-30%. Why are companies with female % that is similar to the female CS graduate % considered sexist but a company that overhires female engineers (to such a degree as to be suspicious of sexism) is seen as diverse?
- brianwawok 10y ago
  It's just as sexist but it's not PC to stand up for the rights of men or white people.
- mrkurt 10y ago
  I don't think companies are considered sexist based on the ratio of men/women. They're considered sexist when they _act_ sexist and don't work very hard to cultivate a good environment.
  - Crito 10y ago
    > considered By whom?
  - hueving 10y ago
    It is. Companies like Google are frequently hounded to find out 'what they are doing about their gender crisis' even though their numbers reflect graduation ratios.
    - mrkurt 10y ago
      I think there are a lot of groups that have an obligation to change things, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're bad either. Google is big enough to actually affect the up stream numbers, I'm glad they're working at it.
- BurningFrog 10y ago
  > The percent of female CS graduates is ~20-30%. In the US? If you're hiring from the whole planet, that's not the valid measure.
  - hnbroseph 10y ago
    > hiring from the whole planet this is difficult for a variety of reasons.
- andreasklinger 10y ago
  it's a feedback loop in society if you don't know female engineers you might not see yourself doing this. especially if you parent neither see this as a fitting career path
- alexbeloi 10y ago
  It's really hard to prove discrimination on a small scale, both majority male and majority female companies are probably recruiting from their employees friend network, so it is very possible that neither is discriminating on the basis of sex. Meaning, they are hiring in proportions which are consistent with their applicant pools, those pools are just different because of friend networks. People that study these things always take a macroscopic view and talk about sexism/racism in the industry in aggregate and rarely in any specific company.
- xenadu02 10y ago
  >Why are companies with female % that is similar to the female CS graduate % considered sexist but a company that overhires female engineers (to such a degree as to be suspicious of sexism) is seen as diverse? Nobody said that except you, which betrays your agenda. Good engineering talent is in short supply and has been for two decades now. It certainly won't do any harm to explore alternate recruiting channels.
  - ergo14 10y ago
    Go on - tell us what is his agenda?
  - civilian 10y ago
    I'm with ergo, you should explain your assumptions.
  - FT_intern 10y ago
    >Good engineering talent is in short supply and has been for two decades now. It certainly won't do any harm to explore alternate recruiting channels. There is always an opportunity cost. Exploring alternative recruiting channels means not utilizing recruiting channels that have been optimized to find talent regardless of race/gender. >Nobody said that except you, which betrays your agenda. Articles that state that software engineering companies are sexist because they don't have a 50/50 gender split are very commonplace. My agenda is not being discriminated based on my race or gender fyi.
jomamaxx 10y ago
Curious to know what company that is - I've never witnessed more than a small ratio.
brianwawok 10y ago
So what if 70% of applicants are not women. Do you turn down better men just do meet a woman quota? That seems the wrong way to get diversity. If a great man comes along hire him. If a great woman comes along hire her. If you have a quota of X you are going to hire less qualified people, thus creating a culture of quotas and not performance.
- nsavaaytrev 10y ago
  > If a great man comes along hire him. If a great woman comes along hire him. Lol.. oops.
  - brianwawok 10y ago
    :(
    - lagg 10y ago
      Sorry man, your post has now been sucked into the toxic pit of horrible people both male and female. Also known as twitter. I tried to set the record straight, but alas I have less followers. You are now a horrible person and your typo is forever enshrined. https://twitter.com/laggdotme/status/784502966728269824 https://twitter.com/laggdotme/status/784502966728269824
- aplusbi 10y ago
  If you try to increase diversity by implementing a quota system you are doing it wrong. The right way is to look for qualified candidates from multiple backgrounds. For example, plenty of companies recruit from MIT but how many recruit from Spelman College?
- hibikir 10y ago
  Quotas aren't necessarily the best ideas, but if 90% of your applicants are men, and men and women have the same pass rates, what you have to work on is resume sourcing. This is especially true in companies that mostly hire referrals: You are mostly hiring people that are like the people you have, so you'll lose diversity on average. You also have to look at differences in the middle of the pipeline. Imagine you only give a phone screen to 5% of female applicants, but 10% of male applicants. You have to think very hard about why that happens. Maybe your ways of rating resumes have a built in bias. For instance, imagine that I only interviewed new grads that had at least two internships in large tech companies. A rubric like that looks neutral, but you'll discover that the demographics of CS graduates vs those that have those two internships are very different (far fewer women, and a lot more people that will identify themselves as asian).

In my experience distributed company is best if you want diverse team from start. I worked at company where 70% of engineers were women.

by jkot 10y ago

In my experience distributed company is best if you want diverse team from start. I worked at company where 70% of engineers were women.

FT_intern 10y ago

The percent of female CS graduates is ~20-30%. Why are companies with female % that is similar to the female CS graduate % considered sexist but a company that overhires female engineers (to such a degree as to be suspicious of sexism) is seen as diverse?

brianwawok 10y ago
It's just as sexist but it's not PC to stand up for the rights of men or white people.
mrkurt 10y ago
I don't think companies are considered sexist based on the ratio of men/women. They're considered sexist when they _act_ sexist and don't work very hard to cultivate a good environment.
- Crito 10y ago
  > considered By whom?
- hueving 10y ago
  It is. Companies like Google are frequently hounded to find out 'what they are doing about their gender crisis' even though their numbers reflect graduation ratios.
  - mrkurt 10y ago
    I think there are a lot of groups that have an obligation to change things, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're bad either. Google is big enough to actually affect the up stream numbers, I'm glad they're working at it.
BurningFrog 10y ago
> The percent of female CS graduates is ~20-30%. In the US? If you're hiring from the whole planet, that's not the valid measure.
- hnbroseph 10y ago
  > hiring from the whole planet this is difficult for a variety of reasons.
andreasklinger 10y ago
it's a feedback loop in society if you don't know female engineers you might not see yourself doing this. especially if you parent neither see this as a fitting career path
alexbeloi 10y ago
It's really hard to prove discrimination on a small scale, both majority male and majority female companies are probably recruiting from their employees friend network, so it is very possible that neither is discriminating on the basis of sex. Meaning, they are hiring in proportions which are consistent with their applicant pools, those pools are just different because of friend networks. People that study these things always take a macroscopic view and talk about sexism/racism in the industry in aggregate and rarely in any specific company.
xenadu02 10y ago
>Why are companies with female % that is similar to the female CS graduate % considered sexist but a company that overhires female engineers (to such a degree as to be suspicious of sexism) is seen as diverse? Nobody said that except you, which betrays your agenda. Good engineering talent is in short supply and has been for two decades now. It certainly won't do any harm to explore alternate recruiting channels.
- ergo14 10y ago
  Go on - tell us what is his agenda?
- civilian 10y ago
  I'm with ergo, you should explain your assumptions.
- FT_intern 10y ago
  >Good engineering talent is in short supply and has been for two decades now. It certainly won't do any harm to explore alternate recruiting channels. There is always an opportunity cost. Exploring alternative recruiting channels means not utilizing recruiting channels that have been optimized to find talent regardless of race/gender. >Nobody said that except you, which betrays your agenda. Articles that state that software engineering companies are sexist because they don't have a 50/50 gender split are very commonplace. My agenda is not being discriminated based on my race or gender fyi.

jomamaxx 10y ago

Curious to know what company that is - I've never witnessed more than a small ratio.

brianwawok 10y ago

So what if 70% of applicants are not women. Do you turn down better men just do meet a woman quota? That seems the wrong way to get diversity. If a great man comes along hire him. If a great woman comes along hire her. If you have a quota of X you are going to hire less qualified people, thus creating a culture of quotas and not performance.

nsavaaytrev 10y ago
> If a great man comes along hire him. If a great woman comes along hire him. Lol.. oops.
- brianwawok 10y ago
  :(
  - lagg 10y ago
    Sorry man, your post has now been sucked into the toxic pit of horrible people both male and female. Also known as twitter. I tried to set the record straight, but alas I have less followers. You are now a horrible person and your typo is forever enshrined. https://twitter.com/laggdotme/status/784502966728269824 https://twitter.com/laggdotme/status/784502966728269824
aplusbi 10y ago
If you try to increase diversity by implementing a quota system you are doing it wrong. The right way is to look for qualified candidates from multiple backgrounds. For example, plenty of companies recruit from MIT but how many recruit from Spelman College?
hibikir 10y ago
Quotas aren't necessarily the best ideas, but if 90% of your applicants are men, and men and women have the same pass rates, what you have to work on is resume sourcing. This is especially true in companies that mostly hire referrals: You are mostly hiring people that are like the people you have, so you'll lose diversity on average. You also have to look at differences in the middle of the pipeline. Imagine you only give a phone screen to 5% of female applicants, but 10% of male applicants. You have to think very hard about why that happens. Maybe your ways of rating resumes have a built in bias. For instance, imagine that I only interviewed new grads that had at least two internships in large tech companies. A rubric like that looks neutral, but you'll discover that the demographics of CS graduates vs those that have those two internships are very different (far fewer women, and a lot more people that will identify themselves as asian).