3 ms·

Aristotle won in the west. In Eastern Christendom, Plato won.

milcron 10y ago
In the pre-Crusades 'dark ages', Europeans were by-and-large ignorant of Aristotle. Christianity was popular, and the philosophic framework was predominantly Neo-Platonic. Fortunately, Aristotle's work was preserved and commented upon by Islamic scholars. Averroes and Avicenna are two important Islamic scholars who commented on Aristotle. After the Crusades, this was reintroduced to the West. As Aristotelianism was reintroduced to Europe, there was actually an intellectual crisis of sorts, ultimately resolved by St. Aquinas. See 'Scholasticism' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholasticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholasticism
- camelNotation 10y ago
  The legend of early Islamic scholars "preserving human knowledge through the dark ages" is extremely overdone. Eastern Christendom fleeing the encroachment of Islamic invaders (which is largely what reintroduced Aristotle to the West, not Islam) had grappled with the conflict between Platonic and Aristotelian theological influences for centuries prior to the Crusades. The dispute between Gregory Palamas and Barlaam of Seminara is the culmination of that conflict. In fact, there arguably wouldn't have even been Crusades if Islamic armies hadn't been actively assaulting Byzantium for centuries. I think it's disingenuous to say that Aquinas resolved anything. He played a role in moving the West towards Aristotle, but that was not exactly an advancement. It'd been dealt with before.
  - acqq 10y ago
    Exactly. The modern myth of Islamic invaders "preserving" anything was just a myth and as far as I know is very recent. The areas that we today identify with this faith had the history of a lot of science work before the invaders came. And the religion was also not that one: From the five holy "sees" only Rome survived the invaders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_see#Listing_of_the_sees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_see#Listing_of_the_s... "Rome, in Italy (Saint Peter and Saint Paul) Constantinople, now Istanbul in present-day Turkey (Saint Andrew) Alexandria, in Egypt (Saint Mark the Evangelist)[14][15][16] Antioch, in present-day Turkey (Saint Peter)[17] Jerusalem, in the Holy Land (Saint Peter and Saint James)[18]"
  - milcron 10y ago
    Thanks for clarifying. In any case, it seems that Aristotle was mostly forgotten in the North and West parts of Europe, whereas Aristotle was known and discussed in the Middle-East and Mediterranean parts. At your last paragraph, when you say "It'd been dealt with before" who/what are you referring to?
  - baldfat 10y ago
    It wasn't a legend or a myth, but also there was no "Dark Age." It also wasn't preserving knowledge it was actually spreading and fusing knowledge during the "Islamic Golden Age." http://www.storyofmathematics.com/islamic.html http://www.storyofmathematics.com/islamic.html
    - acqq 10y ago
      Note how "unislamic" (compared to the later stricter views) that so-called "Golden Age" was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom Richly illustrated. Versus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism_in_Islam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism_in_Islam "For many years, Wahhabi clerics opposed the establishment of a television service in Saudi Arabia, as they believed it immoral to produce images of humans.[19] The introduction of television in 1965 offended some Saudis,[20] and one of King Faisal's nephews, Prince Khalid ibn Musa'id ibn 'Abd al-'Aziz,[21] was killed in a police shootout in August 1965 after he led an assault on one of the new television stations.[20]"

In the pre-Crusades 'dark ages', Europeans were by-and-large ignorant of Aristotle. Christianity was popular, and the philosophic framework was predominantly Neo-Platonic. Fortunately, Aristotle's work was preserved and commented upon by Islamic scholars. Averroes and Avicenna are two important Islamic scholars who commented on Aristotle. After the Crusades, this was reintroduced to the West. As Aristotelianism was reintroduced to Europe, there was actually an intellectual crisis of sorts, ultimately resolved by St. Aquinas. See 'Scholasticism' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholasticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholasticism

camelNotation 10y ago
The legend of early Islamic scholars "preserving human knowledge through the dark ages" is extremely overdone. Eastern Christendom fleeing the encroachment of Islamic invaders (which is largely what reintroduced Aristotle to the West, not Islam) had grappled with the conflict between Platonic and Aristotelian theological influences for centuries prior to the Crusades. The dispute between Gregory Palamas and Barlaam of Seminara is the culmination of that conflict. In fact, there arguably wouldn't have even been Crusades if Islamic armies hadn't been actively assaulting Byzantium for centuries. I think it's disingenuous to say that Aquinas resolved anything. He played a role in moving the West towards Aristotle, but that was not exactly an advancement. It'd been dealt with before.
- acqq 10y ago
  Exactly. The modern myth of Islamic invaders "preserving" anything was just a myth and as far as I know is very recent. The areas that we today identify with this faith had the history of a lot of science work before the invaders came. And the religion was also not that one: From the five holy "sees" only Rome survived the invaders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_see#Listing_of_the_sees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_see#Listing_of_the_s... "Rome, in Italy (Saint Peter and Saint Paul) Constantinople, now Istanbul in present-day Turkey (Saint Andrew) Alexandria, in Egypt (Saint Mark the Evangelist)[14][15][16] Antioch, in present-day Turkey (Saint Peter)[17] Jerusalem, in the Holy Land (Saint Peter and Saint James)[18]"
- milcron 10y ago
  Thanks for clarifying. In any case, it seems that Aristotle was mostly forgotten in the North and West parts of Europe, whereas Aristotle was known and discussed in the Middle-East and Mediterranean parts. At your last paragraph, when you say "It'd been dealt with before" who/what are you referring to?
- baldfat 10y ago
  It wasn't a legend or a myth, but also there was no "Dark Age." It also wasn't preserving knowledge it was actually spreading and fusing knowledge during the "Islamic Golden Age." http://www.storyofmathematics.com/islamic.html http://www.storyofmathematics.com/islamic.html
  - acqq 10y ago
    Note how "unislamic" (compared to the later stricter views) that so-called "Golden Age" was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom Richly illustrated. Versus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism_in_Islam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism_in_Islam "For many years, Wahhabi clerics opposed the establishment of a television service in Saudi Arabia, as they believed it immoral to produce images of humans.[19] The introduction of television in 1965 offended some Saudis,[20] and one of King Faisal's nephews, Prince Khalid ibn Musa'id ibn 'Abd al-'Aziz,[21] was killed in a police shootout in August 1965 after he led an assault on one of the new television stations.[20]"