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>But I think that trying to shoehorn Vim or Emacs into becoming something that it’s not isn’t quite thinking about the problem in the right way. ...Well, this

>But I think that trying to shoehorn Vim or Emacs into becoming something that it’s not isn’t quite thinking about the problem in the right way. ...Well, this is clearly a Vim user. If you're never leaving Emacs, and you're writing plugins to do everything inside it, you're using Emacs exactly as intended.

clifanatic 10y ago
Yeah, emacs would be a great operating system, if only it came with a decent text editor. (ducks)
- emidln 10y ago
  Someone fixed that. My emacs came with good modal editing out of the box. Maybe your emacs is broken. Try spacemacs.org. (runs)
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    And if you don't want to deal with hellish complexity, and have a DIY mindset, you can grab evil, and build the modal system you want. (dodges)
  - gkya 10y ago
    Spacemacs is a whole bunch of things, nobody needs it for a simple (evil-mode +1) (not that I call it useless, but Vi emulation is part of base Emacs).
  - nerdponx 10y ago
    Modal? I want composable.
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      With evil-mode, which is what spacemacs is based on, you get it.
      - nerdponx 10y ago
        Interesting. Does it have text objects?
        mixedCase 10y ago
        While I don't know if it has programmable text objects, it does have the standard Vim ones from what I've seen last time I tried it.
        qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        Just checked the docs: Not only does it include text objects, you can write your own, if you don't mind getting your hands dirty with some elisp.
        emidln 10y ago
        Yes. It includes most of the standard vim text objects, as well as providing an api for you to write your own. It also has the usual motions, plus an api to add your own. There are existing extensions for the more common vim plugin-provided motions as well.
npsimons 10y ago
http://blog.vivekhaldar.com/post/3996068979/the-levels-of-emacs-proficiency http://blog.vivekhaldar.com/post/3996068979/the-levels-of-em... "It was all just text. Why did you need another application for it? Why should only the shell prompt be editable? Why can’t I move my cursor up a few lines to where the last command spewed out its results? All these problems simply disappear when your shell (or shells) simply becomes another Emacs buffer, upon which all of the text manipulation power of Emacs can be brought to bear."
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  This is Atom's great failing: it's trying to do the emacs thing, but it doesn't treat all buffers uniformly: your settings window, your terminal window, and the various text windows are fundamentally different. Until this is fixed, it's not even in the running as a usable editor for me.
  - zeveb 10y ago
    > This is Atom's great failing: it's trying to do the emacs thing, but it doesn't treat all buffers uniformly That's definitely a great failing, but I think it has two greater still: not being written in Lisp, and being written in JavaScript. The former could be overcome (Alpha was an amazing editor for the Mac written in TCL), and after all there are plenty of great programmes not written in Lisp (emacs, for example, has a C core …). But JavaScript‽ JavaScript: there's got to be a better way. JavaScript: warn your friends about it. JavaScript: dissatisfaction guaranteed.
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      JS is fine. It's got warts, yes, but so has elisp. It's also got proper lexical scoping, and real, function-equivalent lambdas, which are surprisingly rare.
- Avshalom 10y ago
  This is of course such a transparently good idea that Acme and 9term adopted it too.
tychuz 10y ago
I bet Emacs has a plugin that makes it like Vim, so Emacs is not that bad. :-)
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  Of course it does! :).
  - qbrass 10y ago
    Multiple.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  Evil mode: it's the basis of spacemacs. If you don't want the complexity of spacemacs and you don't mind writing a bit of elisp to get your bindings working, it's worth looking at.
  - justinlardinois 10y ago
    Am I missing something here? That's like an asthma drug whose side effect is shortness of breath.
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      You're missing something. Spacemacs defines a lot of keybindings for many plugins and so on. Evil only defines the basic Vim keybindings. If you want more, you have to write it yourself.

clifanatic 10y ago

Yeah, emacs would be a great operating system, if only it came with a decent text editor. (ducks)

emidln 10y ago
Someone fixed that. My emacs came with good modal editing out of the box. Maybe your emacs is broken. Try spacemacs.org. (runs)
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  And if you don't want to deal with hellish complexity, and have a DIY mindset, you can grab evil, and build the modal system you want. (dodges)
- gkya 10y ago
  Spacemacs is a whole bunch of things, nobody needs it for a simple (evil-mode +1) (not that I call it useless, but Vi emulation is part of base Emacs).
- nerdponx 10y ago
  Modal? I want composable.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    With evil-mode, which is what spacemacs is based on, you get it.
    - nerdponx 10y ago
      Interesting. Does it have text objects?
      - mixedCase 10y ago
        While I don't know if it has programmable text objects, it does have the standard Vim ones from what I've seen last time I tried it.
      - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        Just checked the docs: Not only does it include text objects, you can write your own, if you don't mind getting your hands dirty with some elisp.
      - emidln 10y ago
        Yes. It includes most of the standard vim text objects, as well as providing an api for you to write your own. It also has the usual motions, plus an api to add your own. There are existing extensions for the more common vim plugin-provided motions as well.

npsimons 10y ago

http://blog.vivekhaldar.com/post/3996068979/the-levels-of-emacs-proficiency http://blog.vivekhaldar.com/post/3996068979/the-levels-of-em... "It was all just text. Why did you need another application for it? Why should only the shell prompt be editable? Why can’t I move my cursor up a few lines to where the last command spewed out its results? All these problems simply disappear when your shell (or shells) simply becomes another Emacs buffer, upon which all of the text manipulation power of Emacs can be brought to bear."

qwertyuiop924 10y ago
This is Atom's great failing: it's trying to do the emacs thing, but it doesn't treat all buffers uniformly: your settings window, your terminal window, and the various text windows are fundamentally different. Until this is fixed, it's not even in the running as a usable editor for me.
- zeveb 10y ago
  > This is Atom's great failing: it's trying to do the emacs thing, but it doesn't treat all buffers uniformly That's definitely a great failing, but I think it has two greater still: not being written in Lisp, and being written in JavaScript. The former could be overcome (Alpha was an amazing editor for the Mac written in TCL), and after all there are plenty of great programmes not written in Lisp (emacs, for example, has a C core …). But JavaScript‽ JavaScript: there's got to be a better way. JavaScript: warn your friends about it. JavaScript: dissatisfaction guaranteed.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    JS is fine. It's got warts, yes, but so has elisp. It's also got proper lexical scoping, and real, function-equivalent lambdas, which are surprisingly rare.
Avshalom 10y ago
This is of course such a transparently good idea that Acme and 9term adopted it too.

tychuz 10y ago

I bet Emacs has a plugin that makes it like Vim, so Emacs is not that bad. :-)

TeMPOraL 10y ago
Of course it does! :).
- qbrass 10y ago
  Multiple.
qwertyuiop924 10y ago
Evil mode: it's the basis of spacemacs. If you don't want the complexity of spacemacs and you don't mind writing a bit of elisp to get your bindings working, it's worth looking at.
- justinlardinois 10y ago
  Am I missing something here? That's like an asthma drug whose side effect is shortness of breath.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    You're missing something. Spacemacs defines a lot of keybindings for many plugins and so on. Evil only defines the basic Vim keybindings. If you want more, you have to write it yourself.