3 ms·

How do people who are appalled by this not contribute to it without exiting the world of technology altogether? I can't imagine the factories for Apple or Dell

How do people who are appalled by this not contribute to it without exiting the world of technology altogether? I can't imagine the factories for Apple or Dell are any better... Is there a "no-sweatshop" watchdog organization for tech that says what equipment is manufactured in better conditions?

lsc 16y ago
how effective do you think such an organization could be? For example, the first job I worked at the age of 14-15 was below 'minimum wage' in my area and thus could be called an 'illegal sweatshop' but realistically, considering my background and options (I had no immediate financial need to work; this was my 'foot in the door') it was just some kid getting some experience. The thing is, I didn't go to school. (I mean, I went to highschool, but that's little more than babysitting. I didn't go to college) If you want to get a job that requires a degree without having that degree, you need to do that job for a smaller company that is paying you way below market rates before you can do that job at market rates. It's the way it works, and it worked out fine for me. I ended up making more than anyone I grew up with. I'm not saying that my situation compares with that of the Chineese teens; I'm just saying, you need to be careful to define sweatshop in a way that would protect those who need protecting, without getting in the way of those who don't. My stepmother made me quit my first job after she found out that not only were they paying me under the table, they didn't have workman's comp. I was being "exploited." I mean, I was being exploited. But it was a hugely positive experience with me. The shady computer repair place sold me discounted used computer parts for years to come, and I was able to get a (legal, minimum wage, with school credit) job at one of the local county offices that was a customer of the shady computer repair place the next summer, so it all worked out okay in the end, but without getting that foot in the door, who knows how long it would have taken my career to take off? I'm not saying yours isn't a worthy goal, just... you need to be careful with it.
- rubyrescue 16y ago
  I appreciate your anecdotes and I had similar experiences, but I don't think those examples are comparable to the life of a factory worker in China. I agree there's no simple way to define the standard, but there should be a higher bar than this.
hugh3 16y ago
So forget Apple and Dell and stick to "Made in Japan" stuff. I think most Japanese companies still build at least their high-end stuff in Japan since the Japanese market can be picky about this kind of thing.
cosmicray 16y ago
With respect to Apple, they annually publish a supplier responsibility report. You can get access to it here ... http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/ http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/ I will leave it as an exercise to the reader to decide if Apple's professed claims make it better than what is depicted in the OP's story.
adrianwaj 16y ago
I'd pay more for equipment that was stamped with some Humane Threshold level, like food passes an organic or biodynamic level. It should be easier as PDAs and mobile devices obtain barcode or QR scanners: scan an item at a shop, then see if it is approved. You don't need manufacturer cooperation, who would only participate if there was a mass boycott of their goods, which won't happen so long as prices are so low. But once consumers start checking on their own, they might opt-in. Bottom-up change.

lsc 16y ago

how effective do you think such an organization could be? For example, the first job I worked at the age of 14-15 was below 'minimum wage' in my area and thus could be called an 'illegal sweatshop' but realistically, considering my background and options (I had no immediate financial need to work; this was my 'foot in the door') it was just some kid getting some experience. The thing is, I didn't go to school. (I mean, I went to highschool, but that's little more than babysitting. I didn't go to college) If you want to get a job that requires a degree without having that degree, you need to do that job for a smaller company that is paying you way below market rates before you can do that job at market rates. It's the way it works, and it worked out fine for me. I ended up making more than anyone I grew up with. I'm not saying that my situation compares with that of the Chineese teens; I'm just saying, you need to be careful to define sweatshop in a way that would protect those who need protecting, without getting in the way of those who don't. My stepmother made me quit my first job after she found out that not only were they paying me under the table, they didn't have workman's comp. I was being "exploited." I mean, I was being exploited. But it was a hugely positive experience with me. The shady computer repair place sold me discounted used computer parts for years to come, and I was able to get a (legal, minimum wage, with school credit) job at one of the local county offices that was a customer of the shady computer repair place the next summer, so it all worked out okay in the end, but without getting that foot in the door, who knows how long it would have taken my career to take off? I'm not saying yours isn't a worthy goal, just... you need to be careful with it.

rubyrescue 16y ago
I appreciate your anecdotes and I had similar experiences, but I don't think those examples are comparable to the life of a factory worker in China. I agree there's no simple way to define the standard, but there should be a higher bar than this.

hugh3 16y ago

So forget Apple and Dell and stick to "Made in Japan" stuff. I think most Japanese companies still build at least their high-end stuff in Japan since the Japanese market can be picky about this kind of thing.

cosmicray 16y ago

With respect to Apple, they annually publish a supplier responsibility report. You can get access to it here ... http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/ http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/ I will leave it as an exercise to the reader to decide if Apple's professed claims make it better than what is depicted in the OP's story.

adrianwaj 16y ago

I'd pay more for equipment that was stamped with some Humane Threshold level, like food passes an organic or biodynamic level. It should be easier as PDAs and mobile devices obtain barcode or QR scanners: scan an item at a shop, then see if it is approved. You don't need manufacturer cooperation, who would only participate if there was a mass boycott of their goods, which won't happen so long as prices are so low. But once consumers start checking on their own, they might opt-in. Bottom-up change.