4 ms·

You are saying that we don't do food better because it's more expensive? But it's expensive to you. The local purchasing power in Denmark is higher than it in

by Svip 10y ago

You are saying that we don't do food better because it's more expensive? But it's expensive to you. The local purchasing power in Denmark is higher than it in the US. To Danish people (such as myself), it doesn't feel expensive. Although, it doesn't feel cheap either. We are quite aware that we have the third highest cost of living. But seriously, food being expensive is not the same as not doing food right. The few times I've been in the US, I've always been disappointed about the food available in supermarkets. It's hard to find stuff such as good milk or butter.

davidw 10y ago
If you want food done right in Europe, you go to Italy, of course! It's 'real' food (not necessarily 'organic') that tastes good, and gets lots of sunlight, so all kinds of delicious things grow.
TheMagicHorsey 10y ago
I doubt the purchasing power of Denmark is more than the purchasing power in San Francisco. But even if you are right, that doesn't mean a good should be so expensive ... just because it CAN be expensive. Also, its easy for Danes to distort the cultivation practices abroad by encouraging low yield practices to entertain their organic fetish. But that reduced yield forces additional open space to be brought under cultivation ... reducing wild habitat. There are ways of doing agriculture sustainably, with a mix of traditional practices and a measured and scientific use of fertilizer and pesticide. Just because pesticide and fertilizer can be abused, does not mean they are abusive by nature.
mesh 10y ago
San Francisco is very different from the rest of the US, particularly in the quality and cost of food. So, the cost comparison may be apt although this page, which compare cost of living between San Francisco and Denmark suggests that groceries in San Francisco are way more expensive (nearly 60%), although restaurants are cheaper (16%). https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Denmark&city1=Copenhagen&country2=United+States&city2=San+Francisco%2C+CA https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou... Not sure how reliable a source this is though.
- olau 10y ago
  It makes sense to me that prepared meals at restaurants are more expensive. Wages for low-paid jobs are generally higher in Denmark I think. Less inequality. It probably has the side-effect that more Danes cook their meals themselves.
dogma1138 10y ago
No it's not, food is expensive in Europe and in Denmark period. The purchasing power is high, but the cost of food are not remotely cheap to the local population, Danes spend more than twice the percentage of their annual income on food than the their fellow Americans. Also the purchasing power of a US citizen is about 25% higher than that of a Danish citizen.
- Svip 10y ago
  > No it's not, food is expensive in Europe and in Denmark period. I've travelled around Europe, food is very cheap in Central, Southern and Eastern Europe. It's basically Scandinavia that's expensive. > Danes spend more than twice the percentage of their annual income on food than the their fellow Americans. Also the purchasing power of a US citizen is about 25% higher than that of a Danish citizen. Source? I'm actually really curious.
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    >I've travelled around Europe, food is very cheap in Central, Southern and Eastern Europe. It's basically Scandinavia that's expensive. In Scandinavia it's actually relatively "cheaper" to locals compared to central/eastern Europe, while Danes spend ~12% of their annual income on food Poles spend over 20%. That's because the price of many food products is actually relatively similar in most countries within the EU including local production but there is a pretty high disparity as far as annual income goes. >Source? I'm actually really curious. http://www.imf.org/external/ns/cs.aspx?id=28 http://www.imf.org/external/ns/cs.aspx?id=28 Generate a report with the PPP rating. US PPP is 55K Denmark is 45K, if you care about take home wage then the US is also higher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_take-home_pay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_take-... Overall the US has cheaper housing, transportation, food and local services combined with considerably lower tax burden than Europe.
- Retric 10y ago
  There is around 1$ per day per person food subsidy in the US, which has a rather large impact on food prices especially meat. 20% of this is in the form of direct aid, but the spending comes in a very wide range of support for rural areas because of over representation in our political process. Ex: http://www.hrsa.gov/ruralhealth/ http://www.hrsa.gov/ruralhealth/ yes these things are not intended as a food subsidy but low population areas have higher costs for many things which would otherwise raise food prices. Economically only a fraction of rural aid lowers food prices, but the net effect is significant.
ptaipale 10y ago
Local purchasing power in Denmark is clearly lower than US, not higher. And it's the same for practically all of Europe. Purchasing power is more evenly distributed, though, i.e. the poorest have better purchasing power. By OECD purchasing power comparison, Denmark is 26 % more expensive than U.S. And workers have, on average, 15 % lower wages in Denmark. http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=CPL http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=CPL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_w...
- dogma1138 10y ago
  >Purchasing power is more evenly distributed, though, i.e. the poorest have better purchasing power. This is a common misconception, the poor in the US are as rich or richer than the middle class in the EU. https://mises.org/blog/poor-us-are-richer-middle-class-much-europe https://mises.org/blog/poor-us-are-richer-middle-class-much-...
  - olau 10y ago
    I followed your link, but it does not support your summary. It is arguing about one specific point (the 60% point) with no discussion on where people actually are. For instance, the 1/3 "poor" in the US could earn 1$/year and it would not invalidate the discussion, but it would clearly invalidate your summary (and the title of the blog post).
- olau 10y ago
  I don't think you quoted the wages correctly? The Wikipedia OECD stats are in PPP, not gross. Also, while you sort of mention it, I think using averages when the distribution is clearly skewed is a really bad practice. It doesn't help us develop intuition on how things are for most people.
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    Yes, averages skew things, but then the wage figures are before taxation, which skews things even more... but as I mentioned, when you take transfers into account, the lowest income people are better off in Denmark, also when buying food.
FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
It's just a matter of taste and not quality, but traditional Danish food is not something my palate will ever appreciate

by Svip 10y ago

davidw 10y ago

If you want food done right in Europe, you go to Italy, of course! It's 'real' food (not necessarily 'organic') that tastes good, and gets lots of sunlight, so all kinds of delicious things grow.

TheMagicHorsey 10y ago

I doubt the purchasing power of Denmark is more than the purchasing power in San Francisco. But even if you are right, that doesn't mean a good should be so expensive ... just because it CAN be expensive. Also, its easy for Danes to distort the cultivation practices abroad by encouraging low yield practices to entertain their organic fetish. But that reduced yield forces additional open space to be brought under cultivation ... reducing wild habitat. There are ways of doing agriculture sustainably, with a mix of traditional practices and a measured and scientific use of fertilizer and pesticide. Just because pesticide and fertilizer can be abused, does not mean they are abusive by nature.

mesh 10y ago

San Francisco is very different from the rest of the US, particularly in the quality and cost of food. So, the cost comparison may be apt although this page, which compare cost of living between San Francisco and Denmark suggests that groceries in San Francisco are way more expensive (nearly 60%), although restaurants are cheaper (16%). https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Denmark&city1=Copenhagen&country2=United+States&city2=San+Francisco%2C+CA https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou... Not sure how reliable a source this is though.

olau 10y ago
It makes sense to me that prepared meals at restaurants are more expensive. Wages for low-paid jobs are generally higher in Denmark I think. Less inequality. It probably has the side-effect that more Danes cook their meals themselves.

dogma1138 10y ago

No it's not, food is expensive in Europe and in Denmark period. The purchasing power is high, but the cost of food are not remotely cheap to the local population, Danes spend more than twice the percentage of their annual income on food than the their fellow Americans. Also the purchasing power of a US citizen is about 25% higher than that of a Danish citizen.

Svip 10y ago
> No it's not, food is expensive in Europe and in Denmark period. I've travelled around Europe, food is very cheap in Central, Southern and Eastern Europe. It's basically Scandinavia that's expensive. > Danes spend more than twice the percentage of their annual income on food than the their fellow Americans. Also the purchasing power of a US citizen is about 25% higher than that of a Danish citizen. Source? I'm actually really curious.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  >I've travelled around Europe, food is very cheap in Central, Southern and Eastern Europe. It's basically Scandinavia that's expensive. In Scandinavia it's actually relatively "cheaper" to locals compared to central/eastern Europe, while Danes spend ~12% of their annual income on food Poles spend over 20%. That's because the price of many food products is actually relatively similar in most countries within the EU including local production but there is a pretty high disparity as far as annual income goes. >Source? I'm actually really curious. http://www.imf.org/external/ns/cs.aspx?id=28 http://www.imf.org/external/ns/cs.aspx?id=28 Generate a report with the PPP rating. US PPP is 55K Denmark is 45K, if you care about take home wage then the US is also higher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_take-home_pay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_take-... Overall the US has cheaper housing, transportation, food and local services combined with considerably lower tax burden than Europe.
Retric 10y ago
There is around 1$ per day per person food subsidy in the US, which has a rather large impact on food prices especially meat. 20% of this is in the form of direct aid, but the spending comes in a very wide range of support for rural areas because of over representation in our political process. Ex: http://www.hrsa.gov/ruralhealth/ http://www.hrsa.gov/ruralhealth/ yes these things are not intended as a food subsidy but low population areas have higher costs for many things which would otherwise raise food prices. Economically only a fraction of rural aid lowers food prices, but the net effect is significant.

ptaipale 10y ago

Local purchasing power in Denmark is clearly lower than US, not higher. And it's the same for practically all of Europe. Purchasing power is more evenly distributed, though, i.e. the poorest have better purchasing power. By OECD purchasing power comparison, Denmark is 26 % more expensive than U.S. And workers have, on average, 15 % lower wages in Denmark. http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=CPL http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=CPL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_w...

dogma1138 10y ago
>Purchasing power is more evenly distributed, though, i.e. the poorest have better purchasing power. This is a common misconception, the poor in the US are as rich or richer than the middle class in the EU. https://mises.org/blog/poor-us-are-richer-middle-class-much-europe https://mises.org/blog/poor-us-are-richer-middle-class-much-...
- olau 10y ago
  I followed your link, but it does not support your summary. It is arguing about one specific point (the 60% point) with no discussion on where people actually are. For instance, the 1/3 "poor" in the US could earn 1$/year and it would not invalidate the discussion, but it would clearly invalidate your summary (and the title of the blog post).
olau 10y ago
I don't think you quoted the wages correctly? The Wikipedia OECD stats are in PPP, not gross. Also, while you sort of mention it, I think using averages when the distribution is clearly skewed is a really bad practice. It doesn't help us develop intuition on how things are for most people.
- ptaipale 10y ago
  Yes, averages skew things, but then the wage figures are before taxation, which skews things even more... but as I mentioned, when you take transfers into account, the lowest income people are better off in Denmark, also when buying food.

FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago

It's just a matter of taste and not quality, but traditional Danish food is not something my palate will ever appreciate