4 ms·

The ticket as it stands, with a guy who thinks that vaccinations should be optional, and can't think of any world leaders? That's not a ticket, that's a joke.

by M_Grey 10y ago

lettergram 10y ago
"Everyone wants a dictator in charge, as long as they agree with them" Not getting a vaccine only hurts you (and arguably others who don't get vaccines, based on herd)... Wanting to force it, is kind of contrary to the whole quote. Also FYI I'm highly allergic to the stuff in vaccines and they still try and make me soooo I kinda want to point out that the freedom to choose what to put in your body should be an inalienable right.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Not getting a vaccine only hurts you (and arguably others who don't get vaccines, based one herd)... That's incorrect. Vaccines are effective, but (like most things in the real world) not 100% effective. So not getting a vaccine increases everyone's risk of getting the disease the vaccine protects against.
  - lettergram 10y ago
    Totally agree, if the assumptions made on that theory were correct. The fact is, many of the diseases we get vaccinated against: rabies, polio, small pox, chicken pox, etc. Are not spread through the air. And pretty much everyone was voluntarily vaccinated for those. Meaning the less people around you who have the disease the better, as you pointed out this is the general idea. That totally breaks down for air born pathogens that aren't spread via feceal matter, saliva, etc. one sneeze on a railing a train station can spread across 10000 people. We will always come in contact with it, vaccines may help, but yeah... it doesn't spread node to node as chicken pox, more like node to 100 X node. We haven't even come close to solving air born pathogens. Also, I'd argue that many of the reductions in disease rates have more to do with better plumbing and teaching people to stay home as opposed than vaccines. Both help, but the theory is just that a theory, with some pretty large holes and ignores the easy international travel, air born illness, and the evidence doesn't really have enough behind it to say "everyone has to be vaccinated"
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      > The fact is, many of the diseases we get vaccinated against: rabies, polio, small pox, chicken pox, etc. Are not spread through the air. Whether a disease is airborne or not is somewhat irrelevant here (its obviously relevant to how easy it is to spread, but as long as a disease is communicable by some kind of contact, the increased danger from unvaccinated members of the population is qualitatively similar.) > Meaning the less people around you who have the disease the better, as you pointed out this is the general idea. That totally breaks down for air born pathogens that aren't spread via feceal matter, saliva, etc. No, it doesn't; it changes the shape of the "increased risk" curve resulting from changes in vaccination compliance, but it doesn't change that there is such an increased risk. > Also, I'd argue that many of the reductions in disease rates have more to do with better plumbing and teaching people to stay home as opposed than vaccines. Yes, that those things have reduced disease rates for many diseases is a well-established fact, not really a point in any kind of contention.
- M_Grey 10y ago
  Two words you need to research: "Herd Immunity". You want to live on your own in the wilderness? Go for it. You want to send your kid to school? Vaccinate the little buggers.
  - lettergram 10y ago
    Never brought up children... Yes of course children should be vaccinated for potentially deadly diseases. FYI libertarian's believe this too: http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/26/libertarian-gary-johnson-comes-out-again http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/26/libertarian-gary-johnson-c...
    - M_Grey 10y ago
      So, you think that children should be vaccinated by law, but that adults shouldn't because they might be allergic, and they'd only find out when first vaccinated. But... you believe they should all have already been vaccinated. Hm.
- mwfunk 10y ago
  Not getting a vaccine hurts everyone, not just other people who also don't get the vaccine. If you had researched this enough to make an informed decision about whether or not to get vaccinated, this would've been a day one discovery in that research.
- nitrogen 10y ago
  If you are allergic to vaccine ingredients, you should be able to get a medical exemption.
  - lettergram 10y ago
    Yeah, but how the hell do you think I found out? I don't think something that can kill you should be compulsionary, nor should it inconvenience me. I guarantee the vast majority of people will vaccinate given an option. I know I would and do (for some vaccines)
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      Well, I guess you found out when getting vaccinated; that you're alive and here to tell the tale suggests that the system handled this rare exception pretty well.
- geofft 10y ago
  How do you feel about seatbelt laws?
  - lettergram 10y ago
    Lol I think you know...
    - M_Grey 10y ago
      I think you should be allowed to sign a contract explaining the risks, and releasing all private and public institutions from any requirement to render aid in the case that you're in an accident, or that such aid is to be rendered at your expense. Then by all means, leave off your belt. Making a stupid choice and then making the public pay for it though? No.

The ticket as it stands, with a guy who thinks that vaccinations should be optional, and can't think of any world leaders? That's not a ticket, that's a joke.

by M_Grey 10y ago

The ticket as it stands, with a guy who thinks that vaccinations should be optional, and can't think of any world leaders? That's not a ticket, that's a joke.

lettergram 10y ago

"Everyone wants a dictator in charge, as long as they agree with them" Not getting a vaccine only hurts you (and arguably others who don't get vaccines, based on herd)... Wanting to force it, is kind of contrary to the whole quote. Also FYI I'm highly allergic to the stuff in vaccines and they still try and make me soooo I kinda want to point out that the freedom to choose what to put in your body should be an inalienable right.

dragonwriter 10y ago
> Not getting a vaccine only hurts you (and arguably others who don't get vaccines, based one herd)... That's incorrect. Vaccines are effective, but (like most things in the real world) not 100% effective. So not getting a vaccine increases everyone's risk of getting the disease the vaccine protects against.
- lettergram 10y ago
  Totally agree, if the assumptions made on that theory were correct. The fact is, many of the diseases we get vaccinated against: rabies, polio, small pox, chicken pox, etc. Are not spread through the air. And pretty much everyone was voluntarily vaccinated for those. Meaning the less people around you who have the disease the better, as you pointed out this is the general idea. That totally breaks down for air born pathogens that aren't spread via feceal matter, saliva, etc. one sneeze on a railing a train station can spread across 10000 people. We will always come in contact with it, vaccines may help, but yeah... it doesn't spread node to node as chicken pox, more like node to 100 X node. We haven't even come close to solving air born pathogens. Also, I'd argue that many of the reductions in disease rates have more to do with better plumbing and teaching people to stay home as opposed than vaccines. Both help, but the theory is just that a theory, with some pretty large holes and ignores the easy international travel, air born illness, and the evidence doesn't really have enough behind it to say "everyone has to be vaccinated"
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > The fact is, many of the diseases we get vaccinated against: rabies, polio, small pox, chicken pox, etc. Are not spread through the air. Whether a disease is airborne or not is somewhat irrelevant here (its obviously relevant to how easy it is to spread, but as long as a disease is communicable by some kind of contact, the increased danger from unvaccinated members of the population is qualitatively similar.) > Meaning the less people around you who have the disease the better, as you pointed out this is the general idea. That totally breaks down for air born pathogens that aren't spread via feceal matter, saliva, etc. No, it doesn't; it changes the shape of the "increased risk" curve resulting from changes in vaccination compliance, but it doesn't change that there is such an increased risk. > Also, I'd argue that many of the reductions in disease rates have more to do with better plumbing and teaching people to stay home as opposed than vaccines. Yes, that those things have reduced disease rates for many diseases is a well-established fact, not really a point in any kind of contention.
M_Grey 10y ago
Two words you need to research: "Herd Immunity". You want to live on your own in the wilderness? Go for it. You want to send your kid to school? Vaccinate the little buggers.
- lettergram 10y ago
  Never brought up children... Yes of course children should be vaccinated for potentially deadly diseases. FYI libertarian's believe this too: http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/26/libertarian-gary-johnson-comes-out-again http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/26/libertarian-gary-johnson-c...
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    So, you think that children should be vaccinated by law, but that adults shouldn't because they might be allergic, and they'd only find out when first vaccinated. But... you believe they should all have already been vaccinated. Hm.
mwfunk 10y ago
Not getting a vaccine hurts everyone, not just other people who also don't get the vaccine. If you had researched this enough to make an informed decision about whether or not to get vaccinated, this would've been a day one discovery in that research.
nitrogen 10y ago
If you are allergic to vaccine ingredients, you should be able to get a medical exemption.
- lettergram 10y ago
  Yeah, but how the hell do you think I found out? I don't think something that can kill you should be compulsionary, nor should it inconvenience me. I guarantee the vast majority of people will vaccinate given an option. I know I would and do (for some vaccines)
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    Well, I guess you found out when getting vaccinated; that you're alive and here to tell the tale suggests that the system handled this rare exception pretty well.
geofft 10y ago
How do you feel about seatbelt laws?
- lettergram 10y ago
  Lol I think you know...
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    I think you should be allowed to sign a contract explaining the risks, and releasing all private and public institutions from any requirement to render aid in the case that you're in an accident, or that such aid is to be rendered at your expense. Then by all means, leave off your belt. Making a stupid choice and then making the public pay for it though? No.