4 ms·

There are an awful lot of city people too who have to see the suburbs every day for work and are relieved when they get to go home to the city. I am thinking i

by enf 17y ago

There are an awful lot of city people too who have to see the suburbs every day for work and are relieved when they get to go home to the city. I am thinking in particular of all the San Franciscans who work in the South Bay.

potatolicious 17y ago
I know many a Microsoftie here in Seattle that suffer a pretty torturous commute to the burbs while living in urban areas.
anamax 17y ago
You really think that driving down 101 (or riding a WiFi bus) and to Castro Street for lunch shows you what living in the South Bay is like? Wowsers. FWIW, almost all of suburban South Bay housing has a grocery store within 20 walking minutes. (There may be a spot in the middle of Atherton that doesn't. The rural areas of Woodside and Portola Valley don't.) I mention that because of the claim above about how to "fix" American suburbs.
- enf 17y ago
  I think that it gives as accurate an idea of what suburban life does as driving into the city to work gives of what city life is like, which is what I was responding to ("You're forgetting that many of the suburbians see cities every day because that's where they work.... What fraction of the urban crowd have a comparable experience?"). I don't think either group of commuters is getting the real experience of the place they are commuting to (the skyscraper forest is not the real city, and the office park is not the real suburb), but I think most members of both groups are legitimately glad when they go home and get away from a place that they don't like to be.
  - anamax 17y ago
    > I think that it gives as accurate an idea of what suburban life does as driving into the city to work gives of what city life is like Driving into SF and taking Muni takes you through and over residential neighborhoods. Neither 101 nor 280 are elevated enough to see beyond the biz that line them.
    - enf 17y ago
      It doesn't sound like either of us is going to convince the other of anything. I think what you can see from a moving car, especially from an elevated freeway, is irrelevant to understanding what life is like in the city, because the essence of city life is the pedestrian experience. That said, there are plenty of important streets that people take to work in the South Bay that are also residential -- University Avenue, Embarcadero Road, Alma Street, Charleston Road, and so on. What makes the experience of these streets from a car less informative about the South Bay than the experience of Mission Street from a car is about San Francisco?
      - anamax 17y ago
        > That said, there are plenty of important streets that people take to work in the South Bay that are also residential -- University Avenue, Embarcadero Road, Alma Street, Charleston Road, and so on. What makes the experience of these streets from a car less informative about the South Bay than the experience of Mission Street from a car is about San Francisco? That's an interesting collection of suburb streets because they're counter-examples to the claims made by urbanites about suburbs. (With the exception of University, they have restaurants, grocery stores, and so on within walking distance. Since University goes through downtown PA, one might guess that there's a grocery store within a block or two - which there is.) I assumed that the urbanites making those claims were making them out of ignorance. If those are streets that they experience, my assumption is wrong. > What makes the experience of these streets from a car less informative about the South Bay than the experience of Mission Street from a car is about San Francisco? I can see that the houses are packed close together, where there are houses. I can see the apartments. I can see the street life. Note that most workers experience some aspects of the pedestrian life at lunch. They walk by the restaurants, the neighborhood grocery stores, and nightclubs. Not everyone thinks that having a couple of nightclubs within walking distance is a good thing. If you do, great - you should live near them. My point is that there's nothing wrong with someone else having different priorities.
        enf 17y ago
        OK, it sounds like we may be in violent agreement then. University Avenue is a good place and the only trouble is that places like it are too few and too far apart.

by enf 17y ago

potatolicious 17y ago

I know many a Microsoftie here in Seattle that suffer a pretty torturous commute to the burbs while living in urban areas.

anamax 17y ago

You really think that driving down 101 (or riding a WiFi bus) and to Castro Street for lunch shows you what living in the South Bay is like? Wowsers. FWIW, almost all of suburban South Bay housing has a grocery store within 20 walking minutes. (There may be a spot in the middle of Atherton that doesn't. The rural areas of Woodside and Portola Valley don't.) I mention that because of the claim above about how to "fix" American suburbs.

enf 17y ago
I think that it gives as accurate an idea of what suburban life does as driving into the city to work gives of what city life is like, which is what I was responding to ("You're forgetting that many of the suburbians see cities every day because that's where they work.... What fraction of the urban crowd have a comparable experience?"). I don't think either group of commuters is getting the real experience of the place they are commuting to (the skyscraper forest is not the real city, and the office park is not the real suburb), but I think most members of both groups are legitimately glad when they go home and get away from a place that they don't like to be.
- anamax 17y ago
  > I think that it gives as accurate an idea of what suburban life does as driving into the city to work gives of what city life is like Driving into SF and taking Muni takes you through and over residential neighborhoods. Neither 101 nor 280 are elevated enough to see beyond the biz that line them.
  - enf 17y ago
    It doesn't sound like either of us is going to convince the other of anything. I think what you can see from a moving car, especially from an elevated freeway, is irrelevant to understanding what life is like in the city, because the essence of city life is the pedestrian experience. That said, there are plenty of important streets that people take to work in the South Bay that are also residential -- University Avenue, Embarcadero Road, Alma Street, Charleston Road, and so on. What makes the experience of these streets from a car less informative about the South Bay than the experience of Mission Street from a car is about San Francisco?
    - anamax 17y ago
      > That said, there are plenty of important streets that people take to work in the South Bay that are also residential -- University Avenue, Embarcadero Road, Alma Street, Charleston Road, and so on. What makes the experience of these streets from a car less informative about the South Bay than the experience of Mission Street from a car is about San Francisco? That's an interesting collection of suburb streets because they're counter-examples to the claims made by urbanites about suburbs. (With the exception of University, they have restaurants, grocery stores, and so on within walking distance. Since University goes through downtown PA, one might guess that there's a grocery store within a block or two - which there is.) I assumed that the urbanites making those claims were making them out of ignorance. If those are streets that they experience, my assumption is wrong. > What makes the experience of these streets from a car less informative about the South Bay than the experience of Mission Street from a car is about San Francisco? I can see that the houses are packed close together, where there are houses. I can see the apartments. I can see the street life. Note that most workers experience some aspects of the pedestrian life at lunch. They walk by the restaurants, the neighborhood grocery stores, and nightclubs. Not everyone thinks that having a couple of nightclubs within walking distance is a good thing. If you do, great - you should live near them. My point is that there's nothing wrong with someone else having different priorities.
      - enf 17y ago
        OK, it sounds like we may be in violent agreement then. University Avenue is a good place and the only trouble is that places like it are too few and too far apart.