3 ms·

> Further, you always had to wait for the cashier to scan everything in the UK. But not in the US. This is also just an "implementation detail". But implementa

by 4ad 10y ago

> Further, you always had to wait for the cashier to scan everything in the UK. But not in the US. This is also just an "implementation detail". But implementation details are essential for the user experience. > you want an easily-cloneable passive technology because it saves you a few seconds under some circumstances. Exactly, convenience trumps everything. At the end of the day, I don't lose any money with the less secure technology. The bank does. Why should I care?

raverbashing 10y ago
> At the end of the day, I don't lose any money with the less secure technology. The bank does. Why should I care? Apparently you never had a card skimmed 1 - Your card is cancelled and you have to wait some days for a replacement (requiring also that you update it everywhere) 2 - The money you lost (in case of debit) will get back to you, after an investigation.
- 4ad 10y ago
  > Apparently you never had a card skimmed I did! Just a few days ago! And it's a chip card, but doesn't matter since the skimmer used the information in the magstripe online. > Your card is cancelled and you have to wait some days for a replacement (requiring also that you update it everywhere) The new card arrived minutes ago! And that only because they had to send it to a different country. I would have gotten one the same day if I wouldn't have been abroad. This is the reason why I have multiple cards, and why I never mix up the cards I use online, with the cards I use physically at the store. Since the card that was skimmed was one that I used physically, I didn't have to change it anywhere. And in the meantime, I had backup cards. Always have backup cards and backup banks. > The money you lost (in case of debit) will get back to you, after an investigation. Nope. The money was returned instantly. In fact, the bank realised what was going on and reversed all transaction before even calling me. If my bank didn't do these basic things I would chose a different bank.
  - raverbashing 10y ago
    Ah so apparently you have American bank cards This is more complicated when you're a tourist You know in Europe people don't have many cards. Some people use a prepaid one for online transactions (not only for fraud but also for "things I suspect I might get overcharged") (I also don't want to swipe my card before I know how much they're charging for it, so I'll wait for everything to give them my card) Don't dismiss it as "the bank pays for it", I know banks get big profits, but guess where they money come from.
    - 4ad 10y ago
      > Ah so apparently you have American bank cards No, this was a Romanian bank, and a Romanian card, and I am currently in Austria. > You know in Europe people don't have many cards. Yes, I know that. It's very annoying because it allows many merchants to not accept cards, or certain types of cards (e.g. VISA/Mastercard).
  - Nursie 10y ago
    There isn't enough information on the chip to perform online transactions, the CVV is not present. I call shenanigans.
    - XorNot 10y ago
      The CVV is optional depending on the type of transaction you're authorized to make.
      - 4ad 10y ago
        In particular, Amazon does not require a CVV.
        vertex-four 10y ago
        I've definitely had to enter a CVV on occasion on amazon.co.uk. And apparently on .in it even does that and uses 3D Secure!
Nursie 10y ago
No. Convenience doesn't trump everything, economics does. Banks with better security can offer cheaper services to merchants, and the merchants lower prices to the customer. You don't lose money with the stripe in the US because the banks eat the (massive) losses. Here they don't, because of the better tech. You can still use the stripe, but the merchant takes the liability. It's up to them. Guess why they don't... So no, convenience doesn't trump everything. Oh, and in the US you have to wait and sign a piece of paper, eating into your precious time.
- 4ad 10y ago
  > Banks with better security can offer cheaper services to merchants Yeah, like we know that will ever happen. > economics Then let the banks allow people to chose what type of card they want, allow merchants to charge different price based on the type of card, allow merchants to implement paying before scanning, etc. Basically, allow the economy to work. The system works the way it works (in any country) because of fixed regulations. There's no economy. Neither consumers not merchants have any say in how anything works. > Oh, and in the US you have to wait and sign a piece of paper, eating into your precious time. Usually you "sign" on some electronic POS, but this time is comparable to the time spent entering the PIN, still much less than the extra time required to wait for the chip transaction to go through at the end of shopping session.
  - Nursie 10y ago
    Yeah, the banks are totally going to offer a fraud-prone product for morons who want to pay higher prices and save 2 seconds. This is nonsense. You have to wait for the transaction to go through regardless. With a chip you just have to wait before removing the card, as a security feature.

by 4ad 10y ago

raverbashing 10y ago

> At the end of the day, I don't lose any money with the less secure technology. The bank does. Why should I care? Apparently you never had a card skimmed 1 - Your card is cancelled and you have to wait some days for a replacement (requiring also that you update it everywhere) 2 - The money you lost (in case of debit) will get back to you, after an investigation.

4ad 10y ago
> Apparently you never had a card skimmed I did! Just a few days ago! And it's a chip card, but doesn't matter since the skimmer used the information in the magstripe online. > Your card is cancelled and you have to wait some days for a replacement (requiring also that you update it everywhere) The new card arrived minutes ago! And that only because they had to send it to a different country. I would have gotten one the same day if I wouldn't have been abroad. This is the reason why I have multiple cards, and why I never mix up the cards I use online, with the cards I use physically at the store. Since the card that was skimmed was one that I used physically, I didn't have to change it anywhere. And in the meantime, I had backup cards. Always have backup cards and backup banks. > The money you lost (in case of debit) will get back to you, after an investigation. Nope. The money was returned instantly. In fact, the bank realised what was going on and reversed all transaction before even calling me. If my bank didn't do these basic things I would chose a different bank.
- raverbashing 10y ago
  Ah so apparently you have American bank cards This is more complicated when you're a tourist You know in Europe people don't have many cards. Some people use a prepaid one for online transactions (not only for fraud but also for "things I suspect I might get overcharged") (I also don't want to swipe my card before I know how much they're charging for it, so I'll wait for everything to give them my card) Don't dismiss it as "the bank pays for it", I know banks get big profits, but guess where they money come from.
  - 4ad 10y ago
    > Ah so apparently you have American bank cards No, this was a Romanian bank, and a Romanian card, and I am currently in Austria. > You know in Europe people don't have many cards. Yes, I know that. It's very annoying because it allows many merchants to not accept cards, or certain types of cards (e.g. VISA/Mastercard).
- Nursie 10y ago
  There isn't enough information on the chip to perform online transactions, the CVV is not present. I call shenanigans.
  - XorNot 10y ago
    The CVV is optional depending on the type of transaction you're authorized to make.
    - 4ad 10y ago
      In particular, Amazon does not require a CVV.
      - vertex-four 10y ago
        I've definitely had to enter a CVV on occasion on amazon.co.uk. And apparently on .in it even does that and uses 3D Secure!

Nursie 10y ago

No. Convenience doesn't trump everything, economics does. Banks with better security can offer cheaper services to merchants, and the merchants lower prices to the customer. You don't lose money with the stripe in the US because the banks eat the (massive) losses. Here they don't, because of the better tech. You can still use the stripe, but the merchant takes the liability. It's up to them. Guess why they don't... So no, convenience doesn't trump everything. Oh, and in the US you have to wait and sign a piece of paper, eating into your precious time.

4ad 10y ago
> Banks with better security can offer cheaper services to merchants Yeah, like we know that will ever happen. > economics Then let the banks allow people to chose what type of card they want, allow merchants to charge different price based on the type of card, allow merchants to implement paying before scanning, etc. Basically, allow the economy to work. The system works the way it works (in any country) because of fixed regulations. There's no economy. Neither consumers not merchants have any say in how anything works. > Oh, and in the US you have to wait and sign a piece of paper, eating into your precious time. Usually you "sign" on some electronic POS, but this time is comparable to the time spent entering the PIN, still much less than the extra time required to wait for the chip transaction to go through at the end of shopping session.
- Nursie 10y ago
  Yeah, the banks are totally going to offer a fraud-prone product for morons who want to pay higher prices and save 2 seconds. This is nonsense. You have to wait for the transaction to go through regardless. With a chip you just have to wait before removing the card, as a security feature.