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Which reminds me of this great passage in Atlas Shrugged: “Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'
by dEnigma 10y ago
Which reminds me of this great passage in Atlas Shrugged:
“Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”
― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
- CodeMage 10y ago"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." -- John Rogers
- joeblow9999 10y agoDoesn't mean the quote isn't apt and good.
- fattire 10y agoIt's ridiculously bad mustache-twirling dialogue that compares poorly to the grunts of an orc.
- CodeMage 10y agoThe quote is somewhat apt, because it describes, to a certain degree, the current state of federal laws. That's the best thing I can say about the quote. It certainly isn't good. Those same views of the nature of power were much better expressed by Orwell in his "1984". That's what I would call good.
- serf 10y agoIs this the same John Rogers that helped write the story for the newest 'Catwoman' and 'Transformers' movies? I'm not so sure he's in the best position to qualify as a literary critic.
- rhizome 10y agoYou don't have to be a lit crit to come to a solid conclusion that Rand should not be followed as a life plan. I feel the same way about "The Prince" and "The Art of War," both of which I haven't read because I don't want them poisoning my brain.
- tempestn 10y agoYou don't trust your ability to critically evaluate the things you read?
- phaus 10y agoEdit: Apparently I'm not as cultured as I thought. I didn't know Machiavelli had his own version of "The Art of War". Obviously, my previous comment was unqualified. However, I did read "The Prince" and I think there's a lot most can learn from it. While I find the majority of the book reprehensible, there are many powerful people in our society that seem to think of it as a bible / instruction manual. Given the fact that such ideas still play a significant role in our society; I feel it is worthwhile to learn about them.
- jsmthrowaway 10y ago
- compiler-guy 10y agoLike many thinkers, Rand's critiques are usually pretty insightful, but have very large blind spots. Also like many thinkers, her solutions are often worse than the disease.
- crdb 10y agoResponding with an ad hominem - whether at the author of the quote or the poster of it by association - is both an ineffective response (the appeal to emotion signals an inability to argue rationally) and lowers the quality of discussion (by taking it away from the point, into emotional territory). Constant appeals to emotion and resorting to a wide array of fallacies allows for strongmen to build tribes which follow them blindly (no need to bother forming policy) and is how we end up with Trump vs Clinton in 2016 (see [1] for the impact on the legislative process). Reducing the quality of debate is therefore a harmful thing with real consequences. One line of argument might be to criticise the paranoid nature of the quote: it is entirely possible that a mess of laws arises naturally from a mix of special interests doing some lobbying to preserve small advantages for themselves, and bad laws arising as a form of horse trading necessary to get policy enacted. Only then does this mess presents an opportunity to manipulators. [1] http://imgur.com/a/Wmoex http://imgur.com/a/Wmoex - "Voting Relationships between Senators in the 101st through 113th Congresses"
- CodeMage 10y agoI was tempted to reply with a "found the objectivist" just to illustrate what "ad hominem" really means, but I'm waiting for a build, so I have time to kill. Ad hominem would have been to attack Ayn Rand. I didn't do that. The quote I used doesn't attack the author, it attacks the work. I happen to agree with it. If you want to criticize it, you would do better to point out that the quote I used is not constructive criticism. I would agree with that, but I would probably also point out that humorous quips rarely are.
- smokeyj 10y agoIt's only humorous if you agree with it. Replace the two books with ones you like and you have a formulaic insult. Save it for elsewhere.
- coldtea 10y agoWell, in addition to the "insult" (which surely adult conversationists can suffer easily) the quote also included a summarized view of the contents of mrs. Rand's work.
- dredmorbius 10y agoRand is properly criticised with extreme prejudice. The passage, moustache-twirling or otherwise, is a fair presentation of the principle of threat-based leverage and its use.
- Schwolop 10y agoDoes anyone know if there's a name for this form of humour? (That is: forcing a split between two things, then describing the second one first in a manner that is ambiguous until the punchline confirms the order.)
- sangnoir 10y agoI don't know if the type of humor itself has a name, but the technique it employs is misdirection, of which there are many variations such as posing a question to 1 of 2 very different people, when the more suitable target (to audience) starts to answer, asker then says "I wasn't talking to you"
- fenomas 10y agoI think of it as basically a garden-path joke. Incidentally I've noticed that jokes structured like this have become so common in UK comedy shows that the punchline is often unnecessary or even omitted.
- kriro 10y agoIs that the John Rodgers that gave us masterpieces like American Outlaws and Catwoman? Maybe I'm wrong/misremembering but I feel like all criticism of Atlas Shrugged I've read seems to assume that whoever reads it will be brainwashed into becoming a fanboy who cannot reflect on the work. I thought it was one of the more interesting books I've read but a bit long winded. I don't think it's well written but the content was interesting (I do think "The Driver" by Garrett is a better book). I do appreciate interesting ideas even if I don't agree with them (I partly agree with quite a few thoughts by Rand at least on some level)
- forgetsusername 10y agoJohn Rogers? The guy who wrote Catwoman? Why do you hold his opinion of literature in such high regard?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]