6 ms·

While it is damning that Mayer didn't go to Stamos about this and went straight to the email team, it's hard to say whether she felt it was necessary to tell hi

by yladiz 10y ago

While it is damning that Mayer didn't go to Stamos about this and went straight to the email team, it's hard to say whether she felt it was necessary to tell him, or was even allowed to, since we don't see the court orders and what they entail. It's really easy to be against this and play armchair preacher but this is something she probably had no choice in, in many ways. Also, I'm wondering if this story is bigger because people love to hate on Mayer. I am certain this kind of thing happened/happens at Facebook, Google, Twitter, WhatsApp, etc., so it's confusing why this is so newsworthy. It's not really newsworthy that data from an email provider is sent to NSA under secret court orders and NSA can search the full text of it. Is the newsworthy part that she asked the team to do it without consulting the security team? My question would be, why wouldn't a manager from the email team consult the security team if they had the power to?

sesqu 10y ago
The newsworthy thing was that this was a trigger word or similar ongoing filter that the surveillors wanted copies on sight of, and not a specific email account.
lmm 10y ago
> It's not really newsworthy that data from an email provider is sent to NSA under secret court orders and NSA can search the full text of it. It absolutely is newsworthy. We may have suspected it beforehand, we may suspect it happens at other providers, but we have specific proof about Yahoo now. This is new and important and we should be making a fuss. If we play the jaded cynic we are joining the enemies of democracy.
- yladiz 10y ago
  No, we had proof back when Snowden released documents about the search engine that NSA has from data siphoned from providers. I'm not being cynical, I'm being realistic in that this isn't newsworthy now because it was extremely newsworthy when it first came to light a few years ago. I would rather this be newsworthy because it gets people interested in fighting FISC orders again, not against Yahoo and Mayer.
  - jwtadvice 10y ago
    Except that the song and dance the US Congress put on pretending that the FREEDOM act made domestic surveillance illegal put an end to the Snowden Documents in many people's minds. Continued news about domestic surveillance, police surveillance, Federal controlled 'perception management' news media messaging, etc should continue to happen so that citizens understand that the US has clarified that the bulk of these activities are legal, justified and necessary.
  - losvedir 10y ago
    What Snowden revelation are you talking about? I remember when everyone was up in arms about PRISM, but that's just a pretty interface on more focused requests of data for specific users. This is the first instance, to my knowledge, of the government requesting carte blanche realtime search of all incoming and outgoing email for all users.
    - nickpsecurity 10y ago
      No 2 and No 8 on this cover Yahoo directly: http://mashable.com/2014/06/05/edward-snowden-revelations/ http://mashable.com/2014/06/05/edward-snowden-revelations/ That's them searching for what they want plus seeing everything without notification. There was also a $250,000 a day fine for non-compliance with court orders. That adds up. I can't find the link but they made it grow exponentially over time in another report.
      - tedunangst 10y ago
        #8 is a weird thing to bring up. Yahoo was going to be fined for not letting the NSA secretly tap their cables? They didn't even know the tapping was being done! How could they be non compliant?
        nickpsecurity 10y ago
        Yeah, that might not totally fit in the point I was making on compliance side. It does fit into overall picture of answering losvedir in how they'd be collecting and searching everything in real-time. The next order might force a tap on the cables on the inside. Much like the "pen register" Lavabit was going to have to add.
- ptero 10y ago
  Privacy expectations and acceptance of government surveillance changed a lot in less than 20 years. When info about FBI Carnivore system was leaked (or announced, cannot recall), there was a public outcry that made FBI shut it down (according to Wikipedia they soon replaced it with a similar system under a different name). Learning about massive government data collections of today? Resigned acceptance :(
- jamisteven 10y ago
  Have you been living under a rock for the past 5 years? Snowden revealed all of this ions ago now and provided plenty of proof.
  - dredmorbius 10y ago
    Edward Snowden's revelations were made in 2013. The Yahoo story concerns events of 2015, and programs specifically begun in 2015. Ed Snowden's good. But he's not Timelord good. The Yahoo revelations are new, and material. And exceptionally bad for Yahoo, Verizon (who've their own dark history of mass surveillance participation), and Mayer, who took on a tough job with a sinking ship and based on latest information made it worse and the holes bigger. I have a hard time seeing how this doesn't implicate the entire SAAS / centralised services Web world by association, particularly with the lack of comment from other vendors.
- omouse 10y ago
  It's like the government walking into your home and reading all your mail and listening to all your conversations. It definitely is newsworthy, it's astonishing how people rationalize any amount of spying.
guelo 10y ago
Mayer had many choices on how to act. This is extremely newsworthy, no matter what you are "certain" about, because it has never been reported before that the government had been given realtime scanning access to a major provider. Stop trying to turn this into a stupid tabloid story about who likes or doesn't like the CEO.
- webkike 10y ago
  I don't think you understand the nature of natural security letters. We don't know how Mayer was allowed to ask because we cannot see the letter, such is their nature
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
mtgx 10y ago
> Also, I'm wondering if this story is bigger because people love to hate on Mayer. I am certain this kind of thing happened/happens at Facebook, Google, Twitter, WhatsApp, etc., so it's confusing why this is so newsworthy. Are you serious? It's newsworthy because we have proof they did it. If we had proof Google or Facebook did it, then it would be news, too. And probably much bigger news, because nobody really cares about Yahoo anymore, especially after its sale to Verizon. In fact, check social media and Reddit. A story about Wikileaks hinting at Google manipulating search results to favor a certain US candidate is already being talked about. And that's despite the latest trend to hate on Wikileaks because they focus too much (?!) on exposing Clinton's corruption.
- yladiz 10y ago
  Let's back up for a moment. What proof is there? A few sources "close to the matter"? Sure, that can be reliable, but it's not proof.

by yladiz 10y ago

sesqu 10y ago

The newsworthy thing was that this was a trigger word or similar ongoing filter that the surveillors wanted copies on sight of, and not a specific email account.

lmm 10y ago

> It's not really newsworthy that data from an email provider is sent to NSA under secret court orders and NSA can search the full text of it. It absolutely is newsworthy. We may have suspected it beforehand, we may suspect it happens at other providers, but we have specific proof about Yahoo now. This is new and important and we should be making a fuss. If we play the jaded cynic we are joining the enemies of democracy.

yladiz 10y ago
No, we had proof back when Snowden released documents about the search engine that NSA has from data siphoned from providers. I'm not being cynical, I'm being realistic in that this isn't newsworthy now because it was extremely newsworthy when it first came to light a few years ago. I would rather this be newsworthy because it gets people interested in fighting FISC orders again, not against Yahoo and Mayer.
- jwtadvice 10y ago
  Except that the song and dance the US Congress put on pretending that the FREEDOM act made domestic surveillance illegal put an end to the Snowden Documents in many people's minds. Continued news about domestic surveillance, police surveillance, Federal controlled 'perception management' news media messaging, etc should continue to happen so that citizens understand that the US has clarified that the bulk of these activities are legal, justified and necessary.
- losvedir 10y ago
  What Snowden revelation are you talking about? I remember when everyone was up in arms about PRISM, but that's just a pretty interface on more focused requests of data for specific users. This is the first instance, to my knowledge, of the government requesting carte blanche realtime search of all incoming and outgoing email for all users.
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    No 2 and No 8 on this cover Yahoo directly: http://mashable.com/2014/06/05/edward-snowden-revelations/ http://mashable.com/2014/06/05/edward-snowden-revelations/ That's them searching for what they want plus seeing everything without notification. There was also a $250,000 a day fine for non-compliance with court orders. That adds up. I can't find the link but they made it grow exponentially over time in another report.
    - tedunangst 10y ago
      #8 is a weird thing to bring up. Yahoo was going to be fined for not letting the NSA secretly tap their cables? They didn't even know the tapping was being done! How could they be non compliant?
      - nickpsecurity 10y ago
        Yeah, that might not totally fit in the point I was making on compliance side. It does fit into overall picture of answering losvedir in how they'd be collecting and searching everything in real-time. The next order might force a tap on the cables on the inside. Much like the "pen register" Lavabit was going to have to add.
ptero 10y ago
Privacy expectations and acceptance of government surveillance changed a lot in less than 20 years. When info about FBI Carnivore system was leaked (or announced, cannot recall), there was a public outcry that made FBI shut it down (according to Wikipedia they soon replaced it with a similar system under a different name). Learning about massive government data collections of today? Resigned acceptance :(
jamisteven 10y ago
Have you been living under a rock for the past 5 years? Snowden revealed all of this ions ago now and provided plenty of proof.
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  Edward Snowden's revelations were made in 2013. The Yahoo story concerns events of 2015, and programs specifically begun in 2015. Ed Snowden's good. But he's not Timelord good. The Yahoo revelations are new, and material. And exceptionally bad for Yahoo, Verizon (who've their own dark history of mass surveillance participation), and Mayer, who took on a tough job with a sinking ship and based on latest information made it worse and the holes bigger. I have a hard time seeing how this doesn't implicate the entire SAAS / centralised services Web world by association, particularly with the lack of comment from other vendors.
omouse 10y ago
It's like the government walking into your home and reading all your mail and listening to all your conversations. It definitely is newsworthy, it's astonishing how people rationalize any amount of spying.

guelo 10y ago

Mayer had many choices on how to act. This is extremely newsworthy, no matter what you are "certain" about, because it has never been reported before that the government had been given realtime scanning access to a major provider. Stop trying to turn this into a stupid tabloid story about who likes or doesn't like the CEO.

webkike 10y ago
I don't think you understand the nature of natural security letters. We don't know how Mayer was allowed to ask because we cannot see the letter, such is their nature
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

mtgx 10y ago

> Also, I'm wondering if this story is bigger because people love to hate on Mayer. I am certain this kind of thing happened/happens at Facebook, Google, Twitter, WhatsApp, etc., so it's confusing why this is so newsworthy. Are you serious? It's newsworthy because we have proof they did it. If we had proof Google or Facebook did it, then it would be news, too. And probably much bigger news, because nobody really cares about Yahoo anymore, especially after its sale to Verizon. In fact, check social media and Reddit. A story about Wikileaks hinting at Google manipulating search results to favor a certain US candidate is already being talked about. And that's despite the latest trend to hate on Wikileaks because they focus too much (?!) on exposing Clinton's corruption.

yladiz 10y ago
Let's back up for a moment. What proof is there? A few sources "close to the matter"? Sure, that can be reliable, but it's not proof.