5 ms·

I'm making a podcast discovery app (info in profile). My plan is, if I (hopefully!) get enough critical mass to get podcast publishers' attention, to switch ove

by firasd 10y ago

I'm making a podcast discovery app (info in profile). My plan is, if I (hopefully!) get enough critical mass to get podcast publishers' attention, to switch over to preferring Atom feeds. Just because Apple made a decision in 2005 doesn't mean we have to be stuck with it. I hope, given the combined efforts of people in this space, we can break podcasts out of the grip of the iTunes store (e.g. Why do podcasts need reviews? Have you ever seen a Youtube video where someone urged you to leave a review? It's because reviews catch the attention of iTunes store curators, but Youtube does more automated personalization.)

_kyran 10y ago
Reviews are iTunes' form of social proof and help enable some amount of discoverability. Youtube's social proof equivalent is likes, comments & subscriptions. Of which most youtubers request at the end of a video in the same way.
- firasd 10y ago
  Fair enough. It's true that whatever metric a platform uses for either manual or automated curation, publishers will know about it and optimize for it.
dublinben 10y ago
I really wonder why Apple and iTunes still have so much influence in the podcast space. They have less than 40% market share in the US, their strongest market. In Europe, Android has greater than 75% market share. Is the podcasting audience so different than the mobile market in general? If not, why do so many publishers act as if iTunes is the only place that people find podcasts these days?
- chrisrhoden 10y ago
  > Is the podcasting audience so different than the mobile market in general? They seem to be, for now. Not sure whether that's because it's just easier on iOS or habit. In any event, we're pretty sure that won't last forever.
- firasd 10y ago
  It's because Apple integrated podcasts really early and everyone else has still been ignoring them. I know someone who switched from a Windows Phone to an iPhone spurred in part by the desire to listen to podcasts. Google is slowly lumbering into the podcasts space but it's under their Google Play Music umbrella so it's hobbled by being part of that product (e.g. if Google Music hasn't launched in your country you can't listen to podcasts.)
  - dublinben 10y ago
    >if Google Music hasn't launched in your country you can't listen to podcasts This is such an Apple-centric way of thinking. Google launched their first podcasting app (Google Listen) in 2009. It was only discontinued in 2012 after there were a plethora of better apps in the Play Store. If you care about podcasts at all, you weren't waiting for them to be integrated into Google Play Music. You've been using one of the dozens of excellent 3rd party clients that have been available for years.
  - izacus 10y ago
    Actually it's worse - here we have available Google Play Music and podcasts aren't. Meanwhile I can actually listen to them in any number of significantly better apps (e.g. PocketCasts) so having them available via RSS is pretty important to me.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    Meanwhile, I was using Nokia's official podcasting app before the iPhone 1 was even a thing...
chrisrhoden 10y ago
Apple / iTunes actually supported Atom feeds last I checked. I don't think this is a matter of being beholden to Apple anymore, but the fact that this is what the publishers are doing. Given that it's unlikely that you will build an app that doesn't support RSS, it's not clear what a move to Atom would buy you.
- firasd 10y ago
  Atom is just a more precise and accurate protocol. For example, timestamps in RSS feeds come in all shapes and sizes, whereas Atom has an unambiguous time format. I would want to validate the product before I start messing around with this kinda tech thing, but the idea is, if I have enough users then want to add support for some extra elements like you've mentioned, I'd support those elements in Atom feeds, so if publishers want those extra elements to show up in my site/app they'd have an incentive to switch formats.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

by firasd 10y ago

_kyran 10y ago

Reviews are iTunes' form of social proof and help enable some amount of discoverability. Youtube's social proof equivalent is likes, comments & subscriptions. Of which most youtubers request at the end of a video in the same way.

firasd 10y ago
Fair enough. It's true that whatever metric a platform uses for either manual or automated curation, publishers will know about it and optimize for it.

dublinben 10y ago

I really wonder why Apple and iTunes still have so much influence in the podcast space. They have less than 40% market share in the US, their strongest market. In Europe, Android has greater than 75% market share. Is the podcasting audience so different than the mobile market in general? If not, why do so many publishers act as if iTunes is the only place that people find podcasts these days?

chrisrhoden 10y ago
> Is the podcasting audience so different than the mobile market in general? They seem to be, for now. Not sure whether that's because it's just easier on iOS or habit. In any event, we're pretty sure that won't last forever.
firasd 10y ago
It's because Apple integrated podcasts really early and everyone else has still been ignoring them. I know someone who switched from a Windows Phone to an iPhone spurred in part by the desire to listen to podcasts. Google is slowly lumbering into the podcasts space but it's under their Google Play Music umbrella so it's hobbled by being part of that product (e.g. if Google Music hasn't launched in your country you can't listen to podcasts.)
- dublinben 10y ago
  >if Google Music hasn't launched in your country you can't listen to podcasts This is such an Apple-centric way of thinking. Google launched their first podcasting app (Google Listen) in 2009. It was only discontinued in 2012 after there were a plethora of better apps in the Play Store. If you care about podcasts at all, you weren't waiting for them to be integrated into Google Play Music. You've been using one of the dozens of excellent 3rd party clients that have been available for years.
- izacus 10y ago
  Actually it's worse - here we have available Google Play Music and podcasts aren't. Meanwhile I can actually listen to them in any number of significantly better apps (e.g. PocketCasts) so having them available via RSS is pretty important to me.
- icebraining 10y ago
  Meanwhile, I was using Nokia's official podcasting app before the iPhone 1 was even a thing...

chrisrhoden 10y ago

Apple / iTunes actually supported Atom feeds last I checked. I don't think this is a matter of being beholden to Apple anymore, but the fact that this is what the publishers are doing. Given that it's unlikely that you will build an app that doesn't support RSS, it's not clear what a move to Atom would buy you.

firasd 10y ago
Atom is just a more precise and accurate protocol. For example, timestamps in RSS feeds come in all shapes and sizes, whereas Atom has an unambiguous time format. I would want to validate the product before I start messing around with this kinda tech thing, but the idea is, if I have enough users then want to add support for some extra elements like you've mentioned, I'd support those elements in Atom feeds, so if publishers want those extra elements to show up in my site/app they'd have an incentive to switch formats.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]