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You want the government to give up the right to access communications that it has the ability to access? You're talking about a fundamental weakening of governm

You want the government to give up the right to access communications that it has the ability to access? You're talking about a fundamental weakening of government greater than has ever been attempted. Governments have always had the power to access your mail and papers and such, the only changes over time is the legal hurdles they must use to exercise that power.

Floegipoky 10y ago
This may seem like a small nitpick to some, but I think it's extremely important that people remember that, at least in the US, rights are reserved for The People; the government, by definition, does not have rights, only authority (explicit and implicit).
- marcoperaza 10y ago
  It's not even a nitpick as much as a distraction from what's being talked about. In the sense that I used the word "right", it can be exchanged for the word "power" and have the exact same meaning. In fact, I make that exchange in my comment. What exactly is your point?
  - Floegipoky 10y ago
    My point is that terms like 'right', 'power', and 'authority' are not interchangeable, they mean different things. There are other tangential points, but this entire thread is essentially about people objecting to government exercising power without authority in a way that violates rights. I hope that illustrates both the differences between these terms and why it's important to use the correct language in this discussion.
faktorialas 10y ago
The problem is, I don't think you can say that it's a form of a giving up, or a fundemental weakening of power. We are creating absurd amounts of information compared to before. Just because US Gov could access the measly amount of info that was generated before doesn't mean that they should be able to access the crazy amounts created now. It is from a very narrow perspective that anyone can call this a "fundemental weakening of government". Compared to before the internet, they're still drowning in insane amounts of data. We can also add that if they can access some things, they will manipulate their way into accessing more things. Which means that reducing privacy and security is just optimization for them. And that will have costs beyond the US Government's own doing. Sure, the current law climate seems to be that they can access it. But that climate was created with pushes from LE agencies and ignorant politicians. You may argue that that has always been the case, but clearly there's increasing demand for this to be decided democratically. So US Gov "giving up" this "right" might be the thing that democracy wants.

Floegipoky 10y ago

This may seem like a small nitpick to some, but I think it's extremely important that people remember that, at least in the US, rights are reserved for The People; the government, by definition, does not have rights, only authority (explicit and implicit).

marcoperaza 10y ago
It's not even a nitpick as much as a distraction from what's being talked about. In the sense that I used the word "right", it can be exchanged for the word "power" and have the exact same meaning. In fact, I make that exchange in my comment. What exactly is your point?
- Floegipoky 10y ago
  My point is that terms like 'right', 'power', and 'authority' are not interchangeable, they mean different things. There are other tangential points, but this entire thread is essentially about people objecting to government exercising power without authority in a way that violates rights. I hope that illustrates both the differences between these terms and why it's important to use the correct language in this discussion.

faktorialas 10y ago

The problem is, I don't think you can say that it's a form of a giving up, or a fundemental weakening of power. We are creating absurd amounts of information compared to before. Just because US Gov could access the measly amount of info that was generated before doesn't mean that they should be able to access the crazy amounts created now. It is from a very narrow perspective that anyone can call this a "fundemental weakening of government". Compared to before the internet, they're still drowning in insane amounts of data. We can also add that if they can access some things, they will manipulate their way into accessing more things. Which means that reducing privacy and security is just optimization for them. And that will have costs beyond the US Government's own doing. Sure, the current law climate seems to be that they can access it. But that climate was created with pushes from LE agencies and ignorant politicians. You may argue that that has always been the case, but clearly there's increasing demand for this to be decided democratically. So US Gov "giving up" this "right" might be the thing that democracy wants.