4 ms·

> what's that one talk that changed the way you think and you feel everyone needs to see? Growing a Language by Guy Steele. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a

> what's that one talk that changed the way you think and you feel everyone needs to see? Growing a Language by Guy Steele. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ahvzDzKdB0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ahvzDzKdB0

epidemian 10y ago
Thanks for posting this; it's my favourite talk too :) BTW, does somebody know of (or have) a better quality version of this talk? The one on YouTube has some annoying audio cuts. There used to be a copy on Google Video[1], which i don't remember having the same issues. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2359174 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2359174
Jtsummers 10y ago
https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/steele.pdf https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/steele.pdf A write-up of the same talk. Fantastic read and watch.
chubot 10y ago
This is a great talk, but what he was advocating never came to pass. He wanted to add 3 things to Java: - operator overloading - small value types on the stack (for vectors, rationals, etc.) - generic types Generic types are the only feature that made it (not without some controversy). C++ has all three features. I suppose there is some success in games and graphics using overloaded operators on vector types. But otherwise it doesn't seem like a huge win, or something that is critical for the design of a language. Python has operator overloading. I never really use it, but I guess it did allow NumPy and Pandas to exist. And TensorFlow uses it. Perhaps it boils down to the fact that Java is more of a business language, and C++ and Python have more mathematical applications, which require richer algebraic expressions of many types. But I suppose if Java had gotten operator overloading, it may have been used more for scientific computing. Perl 6 and Racket seem to be the languages that really allow creating your own language. But actually I heard Larry Wall say that they want to provide so many little languages within Perl 6 that users don't need to invent their own. Because this often makes it harder for others to read your program.
- desdiv 10y ago
  Value types is coming to Java 10, and Guy Steele is one of guys making it happen. http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~jrose/values/values-0.html http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~jrose/values/values-0.html

epidemian 10y ago

Thanks for posting this; it's my favourite talk too :) BTW, does somebody know of (or have) a better quality version of this talk? The one on YouTube has some annoying audio cuts. There used to be a copy on Google Video[1], which i don't remember having the same issues. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2359174 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2359174

Jtsummers 10y ago

https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/steele.pdf https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/steele.pdf A write-up of the same talk. Fantastic read and watch.

chubot 10y ago

This is a great talk, but what he was advocating never came to pass. He wanted to add 3 things to Java: - operator overloading - small value types on the stack (for vectors, rationals, etc.) - generic types Generic types are the only feature that made it (not without some controversy). C++ has all three features. I suppose there is some success in games and graphics using overloaded operators on vector types. But otherwise it doesn't seem like a huge win, or something that is critical for the design of a language. Python has operator overloading. I never really use it, but I guess it did allow NumPy and Pandas to exist. And TensorFlow uses it. Perhaps it boils down to the fact that Java is more of a business language, and C++ and Python have more mathematical applications, which require richer algebraic expressions of many types. But I suppose if Java had gotten operator overloading, it may have been used more for scientific computing. Perl 6 and Racket seem to be the languages that really allow creating your own language. But actually I heard Larry Wall say that they want to provide so many little languages within Perl 6 that users don't need to invent their own. Because this often makes it harder for others to read your program.

desdiv 10y ago
Value types is coming to Java 10, and Guy Steele is one of guys making it happen. http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~jrose/values/values-0.html http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~jrose/values/values-0.html