5 ms·

Now gotta wonder if Google has succumbed to government pressure to do the same. I'm really hoping and trusting they haven't.

finid 10y ago
At this point, it's save to assume that NSA/FBI/CIA/Pentagon has front door access to Google. That cheap-oil-for-your-private-planes deal with Pentagon is one small evidence [1]. The other is Matt Cutts working for (on a temporary basis) the Defense Department's branch of USDS [2] [1]: http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323864604579069730686941454 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014241278873238646045790697... [2]: http://fedscoop.com/former-google-spam-chief-heads-to-usds http://fedscoop.com/former-google-spam-chief-heads-to-usds As for Microsoft, well, no debate there.
- magicalist 10y ago
  > That cheap-oil-for-your-private-planes deal with Pentagon is one small evidence a perk they apparently shouldn't have been getting and was cut off by the pentagon is evidence the pentagon has front door access to Google? > The other is Matt Cutts working for (on a temporary basis) the Defense Department's branch of USDS What, do you think he really needed a job so the web search spam guy gave access to user accounts in exchange for getting to work in government contracting? Really need to work on your circumstantial evidence.
MrZongle2 10y ago
Considering the amount of access they have to the White House: why would you assume that they haven't?
- lallysingh 10y ago
  The white house is above the NSA and FBI, so wouldn't access to their bosses preclude them being coerced?
  - skosch 10y ago
    On the org chart it may be, but when the three letter mafia is blackmailing you what can you do, even as the president?
    - lallysingh 10y ago
      You can fire them, have them arrested, and/or have them disappear to anywhere you like. Presidents are pretty powerful.
    - vkou 10y ago
      If you actually wanted to do something, call them out on it. Blackmail is highly illegal, and if it actually goes anywhere, your VP can always pardon you.
aab0 10y ago
I wouldn't bet a bent penny on it: "Experts said it was likely that the NSA or FBI had approached other Internet companies with the same demand, since they evidently did not know what email accounts were being used by the target. The NSA usually makes requests for domestic surveillance through the FBI, so it is hard to know which agency is seeking the information. Reuters was unable to confirm whether the 2015 demand went to other companies, or if any complied. Alphabet Inc's Google and Microsoft Corp, two major U.S. email service providers, did not respond to requests for comment." It's not a hard question to answer. You either are or are not searching all emails in realtime at the behest of the NSA.
- greenyoda 10y ago
  "It's not a hard question to answer. You either are or are not searching all emails in realtime at the behest of the NSA." It's easy to answer if you're not. If you are, you can't answer (at least not truthfully).
  - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
    How much trouble would someone like Google be in if they gave a "warrant canary" style answer? "I'm sorry, we are unable to answer your question" would speak volumes without actually saying anything. But I suppose that the order forbids "disclosure", and that statement is arguably disclosure...
    - greenyoda 10y ago
      The article says: "Alphabet Inc's Google and Microsoft Corp, two major U.S. email service providers, did not respond to requests for comment." Isn't that pretty much saying "I'm sorry, we are unable to answer your question"? If they weren't doing the same thing as Yahoo, they could say so.
      - vkou 10y ago
        They might be doing something different, that they still can't speak about.
rhino369 10y ago
It's not just pressure, it's an order by government. Court orders aren't really optional. And as much as you might think this is a huge problem, it's a bigger problem with companies aren't restrained by government orders. Imagine if Exceleon politely declined to allow nuclear inspections.
- panarky 10y ago
  There is almost always a choice. Exhibit 1: http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/ http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/ Exhibit 2: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/23/technology/23google.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/23/technology/23google.html
  - rhino369 10y ago
    Apple actually had a good case that what the FBI was asking for was beyond the scope of the law. And if the court ended up siding against them, they would have done it.

finid 10y ago

At this point, it's save to assume that NSA/FBI/CIA/Pentagon has front door access to Google. That cheap-oil-for-your-private-planes deal with Pentagon is one small evidence [1]. The other is Matt Cutts working for (on a temporary basis) the Defense Department's branch of USDS [2] [1]: http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323864604579069730686941454 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014241278873238646045790697... [2]: http://fedscoop.com/former-google-spam-chief-heads-to-usds http://fedscoop.com/former-google-spam-chief-heads-to-usds As for Microsoft, well, no debate there.

magicalist 10y ago
> That cheap-oil-for-your-private-planes deal with Pentagon is one small evidence a perk they apparently shouldn't have been getting and was cut off by the pentagon is evidence the pentagon has front door access to Google? > The other is Matt Cutts working for (on a temporary basis) the Defense Department's branch of USDS What, do you think he really needed a job so the web search spam guy gave access to user accounts in exchange for getting to work in government contracting? Really need to work on your circumstantial evidence.

MrZongle2 10y ago

Considering the amount of access they have to the White House: why would you assume that they haven't?

lallysingh 10y ago
The white house is above the NSA and FBI, so wouldn't access to their bosses preclude them being coerced?
- skosch 10y ago
  On the org chart it may be, but when the three letter mafia is blackmailing you what can you do, even as the president?
  - lallysingh 10y ago
    You can fire them, have them arrested, and/or have them disappear to anywhere you like. Presidents are pretty powerful.
  - vkou 10y ago
    If you actually wanted to do something, call them out on it. Blackmail is highly illegal, and if it actually goes anywhere, your VP can always pardon you.

aab0 10y ago

I wouldn't bet a bent penny on it: "Experts said it was likely that the NSA or FBI had approached other Internet companies with the same demand, since they evidently did not know what email accounts were being used by the target. The NSA usually makes requests for domestic surveillance through the FBI, so it is hard to know which agency is seeking the information. Reuters was unable to confirm whether the 2015 demand went to other companies, or if any complied. Alphabet Inc's Google and Microsoft Corp, two major U.S. email service providers, did not respond to requests for comment." It's not a hard question to answer. You either are or are not searching all emails in realtime at the behest of the NSA.

greenyoda 10y ago
"It's not a hard question to answer. You either are or are not searching all emails in realtime at the behest of the NSA." It's easy to answer if you're not. If you are, you can't answer (at least not truthfully).
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago
  How much trouble would someone like Google be in if they gave a "warrant canary" style answer? "I'm sorry, we are unable to answer your question" would speak volumes without actually saying anything. But I suppose that the order forbids "disclosure", and that statement is arguably disclosure...
  - greenyoda 10y ago
    The article says: "Alphabet Inc's Google and Microsoft Corp, two major U.S. email service providers, did not respond to requests for comment." Isn't that pretty much saying "I'm sorry, we are unable to answer your question"? If they weren't doing the same thing as Yahoo, they could say so.
    - vkou 10y ago
      They might be doing something different, that they still can't speak about.

rhino369 10y ago

It's not just pressure, it's an order by government. Court orders aren't really optional. And as much as you might think this is a huge problem, it's a bigger problem with companies aren't restrained by government orders. Imagine if Exceleon politely declined to allow nuclear inspections.

panarky 10y ago
There is almost always a choice. Exhibit 1: http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/ http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/ Exhibit 2: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/23/technology/23google.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/23/technology/23google.html
- rhino369 10y ago
  Apple actually had a good case that what the FBI was asking for was beyond the scope of the law. And if the court ended up siding against them, they would have done it.