3 ms·

[citation needed] on Sweden's plan, since that's Assange's narrative and he hasn't backed it up.

extra88 10y ago
I have a lot of problems with Assange but his concern is plausible. The U.S. and Sweden have an extradition treaty and the U.S. likely wants to prosecute him for his collaboration with Manning on her exfiltration of classified materials. Their chat logs are pretty good evidence that Assange went way beyond what a journalist's 1st Amendment rights would protect. Politicians calling for his death is just grandstanding. In fact, the possibility of the death penalty is probably the only thing that would keep Sweden from extraditing him.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > I have a lot of problems with Assange but his concern is plausible. The U.S. and Sweden have an extradition treaty and the U.S. likely wants to prosecute him for his collaboration with Manning on her exfiltration of classified materials. The U.S. and the U.K. also have an extradition treaty, so the existence of a U.S.-Sweden extradition treaty doesn't really do much to enhance the plausibility of a double-extradition plot where Sweden extradites him from the U.K. on rape charges only as a ruse to get him into Sweden where he can be extradited to the U.S. on some other charges. (If the U.K. was a country that had no extradition treaty with the U.S. and was particularly resistant to U.S. extradition, then a double-extradition plot might be plausible.)
  - extra88 10y ago
    Assange is not in the U.K., he's in Ecuador. Specifically, the Ecuadoran embassy in London. Now the U.S. and Ecuador also have a treaty but I don't read lawyer well enough, especially not old-timey lawyer, to know whether it would apply to anything Assange might be charged with. It does say it "shall not be applicable to crimes or offences of a political character" and I'm sure that's how Assange would characterize it (and I think that's at least partially why Ecuador has been housing him). But the U.S. hasn't charged him with anything so there's nothing for Ecuador to extradite him for yet. In any case, the claim is a nice excuse to avoid jail in Sweden.
    - Tomte 10y ago
      > Assange is not in the U.K., he's in Ecuador. No, he isn't. Contrary to the ever-lasting myth, embassies have no extraterritorial status whatsoever. They are in and are a part of the host country. But they have special protections under the Vienna Convention.
      - extra88 10y ago
        That's interesting, TIL. Nevertheless, being in their embassy seems to have an effect on what U.K. authorities are willing to do.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
- jsmthrowaway 10y ago
  His concern is plausible, but translating that concern into a "Sweden will do this" fact is something else.
- DominikR 10y ago
  Even if all of that were true, Assange is NOT a US citizen. He cannot go beyond a journalist's 1st Amendment right and he also cannot be a traitor to the US. He is an Australian that operates from outside the US by publishing (often secret) material that his sent to him by whistleblowers without any coercion or payment.
  - extra88 10y ago
    I never said anything about treason. I assume "espionage" would be the jist of whatever he'd be charged with. In a U.S. court, the 1st Amendment would apply to him as much as a citizen. Are you suggesting the U.S. hasn't charged him with anything because there is nothing they can charge him with? I don't know about his other leaks but there's evidence that he communicated with, arguably collaborated with and advised, Manning before Manning copied the classified material. If Manning just sent the material to Wikileaks, Assange would be in the clear (e.g. the Pentagon Papers, Trump's 1995 tax return info this week). Maybe it's not a solid enough case to be sure of a conviction, I doubt the U.S. would want to take a chance on it, but it's not like there's nothing there.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > Even if all of that were true, Assange is NOT a US citizen. He cannot go beyond a journalist's 1st Amendment right and he also cannot be a traitor to the US. No one has suggested charging him with treason. He certainly can be guilty of espionage against the US without being a citizen. (And his citizenship is irrelevant to whether he can exceed the protection of the 1st Amendment, since that applies whether or not he is a citizen with regard to government action such as prosecution for espionage.)

I have a lot of problems with Assange but his concern is plausible. The U.S. and Sweden have an extradition treaty and the U.S. likely wants to prosecute him for his collaboration with Manning on her exfiltration of classified materials. Their chat logs are pretty good evidence that Assange went way beyond what a journalist's 1st Amendment rights would protect. Politicians calling for his death is just grandstanding. In fact, the possibility of the death penalty is probably the only thing that would keep Sweden from extraditing him.

dragonwriter 10y ago
> I have a lot of problems with Assange but his concern is plausible. The U.S. and Sweden have an extradition treaty and the U.S. likely wants to prosecute him for his collaboration with Manning on her exfiltration of classified materials. The U.S. and the U.K. also have an extradition treaty, so the existence of a U.S.-Sweden extradition treaty doesn't really do much to enhance the plausibility of a double-extradition plot where Sweden extradites him from the U.K. on rape charges only as a ruse to get him into Sweden where he can be extradited to the U.S. on some other charges. (If the U.K. was a country that had no extradition treaty with the U.S. and was particularly resistant to U.S. extradition, then a double-extradition plot might be plausible.)
- extra88 10y ago
  Assange is not in the U.K., he's in Ecuador. Specifically, the Ecuadoran embassy in London. Now the U.S. and Ecuador also have a treaty but I don't read lawyer well enough, especially not old-timey lawyer, to know whether it would apply to anything Assange might be charged with. It does say it "shall not be applicable to crimes or offences of a political character" and I'm sure that's how Assange would characterize it (and I think that's at least partially why Ecuador has been housing him). But the U.S. hasn't charged him with anything so there's nothing for Ecuador to extradite him for yet. In any case, the claim is a nice excuse to avoid jail in Sweden.
  - Tomte 10y ago
    > Assange is not in the U.K., he's in Ecuador. No, he isn't. Contrary to the ever-lasting myth, embassies have no extraterritorial status whatsoever. They are in and are a part of the host country. But they have special protections under the Vienna Convention.
    - extra88 10y ago
      That's interesting, TIL. Nevertheless, being in their embassy seems to have an effect on what U.K. authorities are willing to do.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
jsmthrowaway 10y ago
His concern is plausible, but translating that concern into a "Sweden will do this" fact is something else.
DominikR 10y ago
Even if all of that were true, Assange is NOT a US citizen. He cannot go beyond a journalist's 1st Amendment right and he also cannot be a traitor to the US. He is an Australian that operates from outside the US by publishing (often secret) material that his sent to him by whistleblowers without any coercion or payment.
- extra88 10y ago
  I never said anything about treason. I assume "espionage" would be the jist of whatever he'd be charged with. In a U.S. court, the 1st Amendment would apply to him as much as a citizen. Are you suggesting the U.S. hasn't charged him with anything because there is nothing they can charge him with? I don't know about his other leaks but there's evidence that he communicated with, arguably collaborated with and advised, Manning before Manning copied the classified material. If Manning just sent the material to Wikileaks, Assange would be in the clear (e.g. the Pentagon Papers, Trump's 1995 tax return info this week). Maybe it's not a solid enough case to be sure of a conviction, I doubt the U.S. would want to take a chance on it, but it's not like there's nothing there.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Even if all of that were true, Assange is NOT a US citizen. He cannot go beyond a journalist's 1st Amendment right and he also cannot be a traitor to the US. No one has suggested charging him with treason. He certainly can be guilty of espionage against the US without being a citizen. (And his citizenship is irrelevant to whether he can exceed the protection of the 1st Amendment, since that applies whether or not he is a citizen with regard to government action such as prosecution for espionage.)