7 ms·

That would be very very cool, but good luck with trying to version .logicx or .cpr I think popular software vendors should seriously reconsider their file form

by mojuba 10y ago

That would be very very cool, but good luck with trying to version .logicx or .cpr I think popular software vendors should seriously reconsider their file formats in the 21st century, including graphical and audio ones.

NikolaeVarius 10y ago
Why wouldn't it be possible to version control in the same way we version control other random files? Just treat it as a stream of arbitrary data.
- jpfed 10y ago
  Yes, but more tantalizing would be some kind of wavelet-based semantic versioning. This might allow merging.
- stdbrouw 10y ago
  You'd miss out on all the goodies of version control like seeing what has changed. Ideally, version control for musicians would have the ability to show "change panning of guitar a to 0.3 and volume to 0.1" similarly to a code diff. Otherwise all you've got is just a bunch of backups, possibly with semi-informative commit messages if you really put a lot of effort into it.
  - spudlyo 10y ago
    I wish that there was a way of getting Logic X to output a list of changes you've made during a session. When I collaborate with my bandmate, I often struggle to describe all the changes I've made since he passed me the project. I'd also like to know the changes he's made. My bandmate often works on our project while it's in a Dropbox folder, so I get a steady stream of notifications about impulse responses and undo files being changed; not very useful. I can tell when he's tracking because the new .aif files come over but that's about it.
    - deusofnull 10y ago
      I mean, Adobe Suite programs have a history feature where all your alterations to the image are listed chronologically. I don't know how that system works personally but it is a similar class of application & feature.
  - Urbanxassassin 10y ago
    This sounds like a dope and insanely hard startup idea. Splice does something like this already, but it's a little rough around the edges and confined.
- dennisnedry 10y ago
  It would be possible if there was a change log constantly updated that was meta data to the stream. In other words, each time something is done on the audio/visual file, log what it was, and version control that.
  - lgas 10y ago
    ES/CQRS for audio editing.
  - LgWoodenBadger 10y ago
    This is essentially what non-destructive edits are in the photo-editing realm
nerdponx 10y ago
For all of the things you can point fingers at Microsoft for doing wrong, opening up their second-generation document formats (docx, pptx, xlsx, etc) was a wonderful, positive move. It's a shame that the music industry hasn't had a similar revelation. I'm tempted to be cynical and accuse them of fear and greed, but more likely "open data" just isn't something they think about.
- Something1234 10y ago
  Really, I thought that docx abused it's specification using very rough edges to make it difficult for opensource applications to implement. http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/10/why-microsoft-word-must-die.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/10/why-micr...
- TylerE 10y ago
  The major obstacle isn't so much the file formats as just the raw file size. Recording 16 tracks at 96/24 is 4.6MB/sec. A typical 3 minute pop song is almost 1GB. If you're keeping multiple takes that will obviously balloon tremendously.
- uep 10y ago
  I was under the impression their hand was forced. I vaguely recall various nation governments insisting on open standards or they would no longer use Office. The OpenOffice formats were going through standardization and Microsoft quickly bought their way through the standards process (this part I remember). There was a lot of complaining of how they exploited the particular standards' body. They bought seats, that then sat vacant after they got their standard pushed through, and couldn't meet quorums on other standards being voted on. There were also many complaints about the Microsoft standards themselves. Particularly, that you couldn't implement support for the documents based solely on their standard. Correct me if I'm wrong.
  - halomru 10y ago
    Yeah, pretty much everyone agreed that the ISO standard for docx was nearly impossible to completely implement for anyone outside of Microsoft and that it should have never been accepted as a standard.
thedaniel 10y ago
Splice.com is this, and it's great, I use it with Ableton all the time. Versioning is easy, merging is impossible. But it's better than what I did before.
gavinpc 10y ago
> I think popular software vendors should seriously reconsider their file formats in the 21st century, including graphical and audio ones. Very true, but it's not just about vendors and formats. Making semantic changes a first-class, user-facing construct has profound implications for how you think about what you're modeling and what kinds of interactions (not to mention collaborations) are possible. Even Git is not "21st century" in that respect: textual diffs are not semantic.

by mojuba 10y ago

NikolaeVarius 10y ago

Why wouldn't it be possible to version control in the same way we version control other random files? Just treat it as a stream of arbitrary data.

jpfed 10y ago
Yes, but more tantalizing would be some kind of wavelet-based semantic versioning. This might allow merging.
stdbrouw 10y ago
You'd miss out on all the goodies of version control like seeing what has changed. Ideally, version control for musicians would have the ability to show "change panning of guitar a to 0.3 and volume to 0.1" similarly to a code diff. Otherwise all you've got is just a bunch of backups, possibly with semi-informative commit messages if you really put a lot of effort into it.
- spudlyo 10y ago
  I wish that there was a way of getting Logic X to output a list of changes you've made during a session. When I collaborate with my bandmate, I often struggle to describe all the changes I've made since he passed me the project. I'd also like to know the changes he's made. My bandmate often works on our project while it's in a Dropbox folder, so I get a steady stream of notifications about impulse responses and undo files being changed; not very useful. I can tell when he's tracking because the new .aif files come over but that's about it.
  - deusofnull 10y ago
    I mean, Adobe Suite programs have a history feature where all your alterations to the image are listed chronologically. I don't know how that system works personally but it is a similar class of application & feature.
- Urbanxassassin 10y ago
  This sounds like a dope and insanely hard startup idea. Splice does something like this already, but it's a little rough around the edges and confined.
dennisnedry 10y ago
It would be possible if there was a change log constantly updated that was meta data to the stream. In other words, each time something is done on the audio/visual file, log what it was, and version control that.
- lgas 10y ago
  ES/CQRS for audio editing.
- LgWoodenBadger 10y ago
  This is essentially what non-destructive edits are in the photo-editing realm

nerdponx 10y ago

For all of the things you can point fingers at Microsoft for doing wrong, opening up their second-generation document formats (docx, pptx, xlsx, etc) was a wonderful, positive move. It's a shame that the music industry hasn't had a similar revelation. I'm tempted to be cynical and accuse them of fear and greed, but more likely "open data" just isn't something they think about.

Something1234 10y ago
Really, I thought that docx abused it's specification using very rough edges to make it difficult for opensource applications to implement. http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/10/why-microsoft-word-must-die.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/10/why-micr...
TylerE 10y ago
The major obstacle isn't so much the file formats as just the raw file size. Recording 16 tracks at 96/24 is 4.6MB/sec. A typical 3 minute pop song is almost 1GB. If you're keeping multiple takes that will obviously balloon tremendously.
uep 10y ago
I was under the impression their hand was forced. I vaguely recall various nation governments insisting on open standards or they would no longer use Office. The OpenOffice formats were going through standardization and Microsoft quickly bought their way through the standards process (this part I remember). There was a lot of complaining of how they exploited the particular standards' body. They bought seats, that then sat vacant after they got their standard pushed through, and couldn't meet quorums on other standards being voted on. There were also many complaints about the Microsoft standards themselves. Particularly, that you couldn't implement support for the documents based solely on their standard. Correct me if I'm wrong.
- halomru 10y ago
  Yeah, pretty much everyone agreed that the ISO standard for docx was nearly impossible to completely implement for anyone outside of Microsoft and that it should have never been accepted as a standard.

thedaniel 10y ago

Splice.com is this, and it's great, I use it with Ableton all the time. Versioning is easy, merging is impossible. But it's better than what I did before.

gavinpc 10y ago

> I think popular software vendors should seriously reconsider their file formats in the 21st century, including graphical and audio ones. Very true, but it's not just about vendors and formats. Making semantic changes a first-class, user-facing construct has profound implications for how you think about what you're modeling and what kinds of interactions (not to mention collaborations) are possible. Even Git is not "21st century" in that respect: textual diffs are not semantic.