5 ms·

"Those who do not move do not notice their chains." Yes, using a tiny, shared commuter car is great when all you do is go to and from work with the occasional

"Those who do not move do not notice their chains." Yes, using a tiny, shared commuter car is great when all you do is go to and from work with the occasional errand run in between. But what about people who are actually enjoying their lives rather than merely surviving? The author mentions this and then completely fails to address it: > Because there are two times in a year when you go camping, you commute to your work in a large sedan or SUV. Alone. When picking a shared car, you use the lowest common denominator—the smallest car that will get you to your destination. And two smart cars fit in a single parking space. So what does our camping friend do? Give up something he enjoys so we can all commute and park more efficiently? Great idea! As if work/life balance isn't already terrible enough, now we're going to shift the burden of parking and transportation management to individuals rather than local governments! And what about the millions of people who drive from the city to the coast during the summer? And the people who drive to the mountains in the winter? And all the other people who have destinations or hobbies that the author didn't consider because they don't conveniently fit into his calculations?

vilhelm_s 10y ago
Hire a car? I don't own a car, and I still go hiking once or twice a year.
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  Everybody goes camping the same weekend(s). The same number of vans will be required; now they're parked at the rental place most of the time. It changes the equation for the individual, but not for society.
  - creshal 10y ago
    > Everybody goes camping the same weekend(s) It's spread fairly evenly over the summer months in most locations. And not everyone has a SUV for camping. Some just need the huge storage to pack skiing equipment or similar, which tends to have different seasons.
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      Just try to go camping on the first good weekend of spring. See how many people are there. Try to get a campsite. It only takes one big weekend to require the peak number of cars.
      - creshal 10y ago
        > Just try to go camping on the first good weekend of spring. For everyone stupid enough to try it, there's two people waiting for the next few weekends.
creshal 10y ago
> So what does our camping friend do? Rent a SUV for his camping trip. Or a real offroad vehicle because he no longer has to make the "needs to be city compatible" trade-off, making offroad driving actually fun.
- gthtjtkt 10y ago
  $300/weekend for a small SUV (plus whatever you pay for your ride-sharing commuter car during the week). Not a great solution, especially if you're not a convenient straw man who only ventures outside his little box twice a year. And that doesn't even take availability into consideration. What happens when spring finally arrives and everyone wants to rent an SUV to go camping on the same weekend? And then summer arrives and everyone wants to head to the shore for a few days? Will our commuter-oriented system be able to accommodate that exodus of vehicles for extended periods of time? Or will people be stuck at home because they don't own a car? I think that's the main thing people fear in a car-sharing scenario: being trapped.
  - creshal 10y ago
    > Not a great solution, especially if you're not a convenient straw man who only ventures outside his little box twice a year. Must be a terrible fate, being a straw man living in a black-and-white world where personal property of vehicles is completely outlawed just because it's less convenient for the majority of people. > What happens when spring finally arrives and everyone wants to rent an SUV to go camping on the same weekend? And then summer arrives and everyone wants to head to the shore for a few days? I'd ask the people who figured it all out for public transit systems several decades ago. We already manage to have enough trains and planes, how hard can it be to model the same for cars? > I think that's the main thing people fear in a car-sharing scenario: being trapped. What.
    - gthtjtkt 10y ago
      > Must be a terrible fate, being a straw man living in a black-and-white world where personal property of vehicles is completely outlawed just because it's less convenient for the majority of people. Seems like you've missed the point entirely. > I'd ask the people who figured it all out for public transit systems several decades ago. We already manage to have enough trains and planes, how hard can it be to model the same for cars? Good joke. This isn't even close to true in the U.S. > What. What's so difficult to understand? People fear being trapped by their lack of a car. If they want to go to the beach for the weekend but there are no cars available Fri-Sun, they're stuck at home.
massysett 10y ago
If the car sharing is sufficiently cheap, camping guy might leave his car at home and just use it for camping, freeing up parking in the city.
majewsky 10y ago
You do realize that one can rent cars?
gwbas1c 10y ago
What does our camping friend do? Rent a giant car for the few times that (s)he needs it.

vilhelm_s 10y ago

Hire a car? I don't own a car, and I still go hiking once or twice a year.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
Everybody goes camping the same weekend(s). The same number of vans will be required; now they're parked at the rental place most of the time. It changes the equation for the individual, but not for society.
- creshal 10y ago
  > Everybody goes camping the same weekend(s) It's spread fairly evenly over the summer months in most locations. And not everyone has a SUV for camping. Some just need the huge storage to pack skiing equipment or similar, which tends to have different seasons.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    Just try to go camping on the first good weekend of spring. See how many people are there. Try to get a campsite. It only takes one big weekend to require the peak number of cars.
    - creshal 10y ago
      > Just try to go camping on the first good weekend of spring. For everyone stupid enough to try it, there's two people waiting for the next few weekends.

creshal 10y ago

> So what does our camping friend do? Rent a SUV for his camping trip. Or a real offroad vehicle because he no longer has to make the "needs to be city compatible" trade-off, making offroad driving actually fun.

gthtjtkt 10y ago
$300/weekend for a small SUV (plus whatever you pay for your ride-sharing commuter car during the week). Not a great solution, especially if you're not a convenient straw man who only ventures outside his little box twice a year. And that doesn't even take availability into consideration. What happens when spring finally arrives and everyone wants to rent an SUV to go camping on the same weekend? And then summer arrives and everyone wants to head to the shore for a few days? Will our commuter-oriented system be able to accommodate that exodus of vehicles for extended periods of time? Or will people be stuck at home because they don't own a car? I think that's the main thing people fear in a car-sharing scenario: being trapped.
- creshal 10y ago
  > Not a great solution, especially if you're not a convenient straw man who only ventures outside his little box twice a year. Must be a terrible fate, being a straw man living in a black-and-white world where personal property of vehicles is completely outlawed just because it's less convenient for the majority of people. > What happens when spring finally arrives and everyone wants to rent an SUV to go camping on the same weekend? And then summer arrives and everyone wants to head to the shore for a few days? I'd ask the people who figured it all out for public transit systems several decades ago. We already manage to have enough trains and planes, how hard can it be to model the same for cars? > I think that's the main thing people fear in a car-sharing scenario: being trapped. What.
  - gthtjtkt 10y ago
    > Must be a terrible fate, being a straw man living in a black-and-white world where personal property of vehicles is completely outlawed just because it's less convenient for the majority of people. Seems like you've missed the point entirely. > I'd ask the people who figured it all out for public transit systems several decades ago. We already manage to have enough trains and planes, how hard can it be to model the same for cars? Good joke. This isn't even close to true in the U.S. > What. What's so difficult to understand? People fear being trapped by their lack of a car. If they want to go to the beach for the weekend but there are no cars available Fri-Sun, they're stuck at home.

massysett 10y ago

If the car sharing is sufficiently cheap, camping guy might leave his car at home and just use it for camping, freeing up parking in the city.

majewsky 10y ago

You do realize that one can rent cars?

gwbas1c 10y ago

What does our camping friend do? Rent a giant car for the few times that (s)he needs it.