5 ms·

> I still feel like a bad coder because i'm not doing it their way. :( I've only been at it for about 2-3 years, and I must say, I feel this exact same way. St

by jbrauer 10y ago

> I still feel like a bad coder because i'm not doing it their way. :( I've only been at it for about 2-3 years, and I must say, I feel this exact same way. Started on the LAMP stack in school and now I know nothing because what I know is "uncool" and outdated since MEAN and all of the encompassing JS libraries have become popular. I caved and started to dabble in MEAN (even though I haven't perfected LAMP by a long shot yet..) and must say it is the most fun I have had while coding and setting up projects ever, however I can't help but feel it is like you say, "a frigging nightmare to maintain and deploy". Nothing seems intuitive...

talmand 10y ago
>> now I know nothing because what I know is "uncool" You want to know what's "uncool" around here for me? Wanting to markup a table with table elements, mostly for the accessibility benefits. I've never seen such an odd pushback. Tables are so "old" I'm told.
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  Actually, what people frown upon is using tables for layout. Using them to display actual tabular data is quite fine. (I mean, everything is fine at the end of the day as long as the end-user is happy, but you know what I mean...)
  - talmand 10y ago
    No, you don't understand. I don't want to use tables for layout, I want to use tables to display a good old-fashioned table. A table displayed in an otherwise normally marked up page. That is what's getting the pushback. I guess I could say I want to use table elements to layout a table, which would trigger the "don't use tables for layout" argument.
    - chris_wot 10y ago
      So... ignore them? If you want to use a table for tabular data, then please - use a table! If someone whines you've used a table, then ignore their whining and keep using table markup for tabular data.
      - talmand 10y ago
        Well, ignoring the situation is not a solution to this particular problem.
        chris_wot 10y ago
        If it gets really bad, just mock them openly. Sure, you might not achieve your objective, but you'll have fun not getting there.
    - scottmf 10y ago
      They're misunderstanding what people mean by "don't use tables". And they don't know what they're talking about.
      - talmand 10y ago
        When I was informed of it, I responded with "they are wrong". We'll see how it goes.
        mountaineer22 10y ago
        Is your intent for Section 508 compliance? If the table cells have specific individual widths and heights, and contain a .gif or .jpg of equal size within them, then that is an inappropriate use of tables today.
        talmand 10y ago
        This "no table for layout" thing is so strong that people keep insisting that I am saying table elements for layout. I am literally saying "using table elements for a table" and not "layout with a table". It is a table with tabular data in it, just plain text. It is a styled table, but a table nonetheless.
    - AtheistOfFail 10y ago
      That's the normal way to do a table. Why import a dozen different libraries to render something that is HTML-included and renders in like 0 time because it's built right into the fucking browser.
scottmf 10y ago
But LAMP hasn't become outdated in 2-3 years. It has been steadily dating for a long time. If your school taught you LAMP as "current" then that is the issue here.
clifanatic 10y ago
> even though I haven't perfected LAMP by a long shot yet.. I've been doing this for 25 years, and I've felt the same way over and over - by the time I feel even a little bit comfortable with an approach, everybody else has already seemed to dip their toe in it, pronounced it unusable, and moved on to the next shiny thing, and wondered why I'm still over here banging rocks together.

by jbrauer 10y ago

talmand 10y ago

>> now I know nothing because what I know is "uncool" You want to know what's "uncool" around here for me? Wanting to markup a table with table elements, mostly for the accessibility benefits. I've never seen such an odd pushback. Tables are so "old" I'm told.

enraged_camel 10y ago
Actually, what people frown upon is using tables for layout. Using them to display actual tabular data is quite fine. (I mean, everything is fine at the end of the day as long as the end-user is happy, but you know what I mean...)
- talmand 10y ago
  No, you don't understand. I don't want to use tables for layout, I want to use tables to display a good old-fashioned table. A table displayed in an otherwise normally marked up page. That is what's getting the pushback. I guess I could say I want to use table elements to layout a table, which would trigger the "don't use tables for layout" argument.
  - chris_wot 10y ago
    So... ignore them? If you want to use a table for tabular data, then please - use a table! If someone whines you've used a table, then ignore their whining and keep using table markup for tabular data.
    - talmand 10y ago
      Well, ignoring the situation is not a solution to this particular problem.
      - chris_wot 10y ago
        If it gets really bad, just mock them openly. Sure, you might not achieve your objective, but you'll have fun not getting there.
  - scottmf 10y ago
    They're misunderstanding what people mean by "don't use tables". And they don't know what they're talking about.
    - talmand 10y ago
      When I was informed of it, I responded with "they are wrong". We'll see how it goes.
      - mountaineer22 10y ago
        Is your intent for Section 508 compliance? If the table cells have specific individual widths and heights, and contain a .gif or .jpg of equal size within them, then that is an inappropriate use of tables today.
        talmand 10y ago
        This "no table for layout" thing is so strong that people keep insisting that I am saying table elements for layout. I am literally saying "using table elements for a table" and not "layout with a table". It is a table with tabular data in it, just plain text. It is a styled table, but a table nonetheless.
  - AtheistOfFail 10y ago
    That's the normal way to do a table. Why import a dozen different libraries to render something that is HTML-included and renders in like 0 time because it's built right into the fucking browser.

scottmf 10y ago

But LAMP hasn't become outdated in 2-3 years. It has been steadily dating for a long time. If your school taught you LAMP as "current" then that is the issue here.

clifanatic 10y ago

> even though I haven't perfected LAMP by a long shot yet.. I've been doing this for 25 years, and I've felt the same way over and over - by the time I feel even a little bit comfortable with an approach, everybody else has already seemed to dip their toe in it, pronounced it unusable, and moved on to the next shiny thing, and wondered why I'm still over here banging rocks together.