5 ms·

I don't understand. 3.3.1 is very clear, is Apple allowed to pick and choose whom they want to enforce that clause on?

by asnyder 17y ago

marcusbooster 17y ago
I think that's the difference between a company's own terms of service versus a license that carries the weight of law. Apple may keep this language and continue to let Unity3d apps pass with a wink, though if I were a iPhone developer I'd find this uncertainty a bit too risky for business.
- protomyth 17y ago
  It works out a whole lot better during a lawsuit if you can point to something in your TOS or contracts that justifies your behavior. A more important version of this occurs in the TOS of social websites. You really, really want language that shows your intent to deal harshly / report people who threaten others.
inerte 17y ago
You know the answer to that, but wish you did not. I wonder who'll be the first to ask Apple to remove a competitor app because of 3.3.1.
tomjen3 17y ago
Sure, they can do as they please. Very few people assumed that this would apply to everyone but it does make it very risky base your business on breaking the rules and even more so to have you business make tools that does it.
andreyf 17y ago
is Apple allowed to pick and choose whom they want to enforce that clause on? Of course they are. And as long as your interests are aligned with that of Apple (making high quality apps and selling them for lots of $), they'll keep being approved.
- barrkel 17y ago
  High quality apps that make lots of $ is not enough. The clause isn't about quality. You need to not be competing in a strategically important area to Apple, and the $ amount must exceed Apple's estimation of its opportunity costs of letting you proceed and potentially not doing something else. What I think this clause indicates is that Apple believes competition at the API and language level is strategically important. Otherwise it wouldn't have been worded the way it is. What I personally believe is that Apple wants to do a Microsoft the way MS did back in the 90s. Apple wants to lock developers in by forcing them to rely on Apple APIs, and not get creative with the language to evade those APIs.
coffee_dregs 17y ago
IANAL but it seems as though a lawsuit would be filed pretty quickly if Apple blocked Adobe's interpreted apps and didn't block Rhomobile/Unity3D/MonoTouch interpreted apps. Seems fair to block possibly harmful technologies, not competitive competitors. We all got pissed at Microsoft when they were giving themselves preferential treatment, but what if Microsoft had said "eeerrrrmmm, Wordperfect is no longer welcome on Windows, but AbiWord is okay".
- ghshephard 17y ago
  Okay, I'll bite. What law is being violated by Apple deciding who they wish to partner with and selectively give advantages (and disadvantages) to. What an amazing number of people (hackers included) don't understand from the 1999 ruling against Microsoft, is that Microsoft was ruled a Monopoly. Now that, per se, is certainly not illegal, but once you are a Monopoly, a large number of activities that previously were allowed, all of a sudden are now restricted. In the case of Microsoft, it was attempting to leverage a Monopoly in one market (Operating Systems) to takeover another one (Browsers). Apple is so, so, far away from being a Monopoly in any market that it's laughable. Profitable - yes. But I think they have like something of 25% of Market Share for Smart Phones, and less than 3% of the market for Mobile phones. And Android is aggressively courting developers/users who are interested in their Open and flexible platform. So, no - Apple is completely free to disallow competitors, and put them at a disadvantage, while allowing the Unity/Rhomobile's of the world.
orangecat 17y ago
Of course. And even before 3.3.1 they had the ability to reject your app for any reason they felt like; see Google Voice. This new clause doesn't actually change anything in reality; it just pretends to make the process more objective.

I don't understand. 3.3.1 is very clear, is Apple allowed to pick and choose whom they want to enforce that clause on?

by asnyder 17y ago

I don't understand. 3.3.1 is very clear, is Apple allowed to pick and choose whom they want to enforce that clause on?

I think that's the difference between a company's own terms of service versus a license that carries the weight of law. Apple may keep this language and continue to let Unity3d apps pass with a wink, though if I were a iPhone developer I'd find this uncertainty a bit too risky for business.

protomyth 17y ago
It works out a whole lot better during a lawsuit if you can point to something in your TOS or contracts that justifies your behavior. A more important version of this occurs in the TOS of social websites. You really, really want language that shows your intent to deal harshly / report people who threaten others.

inerte 17y ago

You know the answer to that, but wish you did not. I wonder who'll be the first to ask Apple to remove a competitor app because of 3.3.1.

tomjen3 17y ago

Sure, they can do as they please. Very few people assumed that this would apply to everyone but it does make it very risky base your business on breaking the rules and even more so to have you business make tools that does it.

andreyf 17y ago

is Apple allowed to pick and choose whom they want to enforce that clause on? Of course they are. And as long as your interests are aligned with that of Apple (making high quality apps and selling them for lots of $), they'll keep being approved.

barrkel 17y ago
High quality apps that make lots of $ is not enough. The clause isn't about quality. You need to not be competing in a strategically important area to Apple, and the $ amount must exceed Apple's estimation of its opportunity costs of letting you proceed and potentially not doing something else. What I think this clause indicates is that Apple believes competition at the API and language level is strategically important. Otherwise it wouldn't have been worded the way it is. What I personally believe is that Apple wants to do a Microsoft the way MS did back in the 90s. Apple wants to lock developers in by forcing them to rely on Apple APIs, and not get creative with the language to evade those APIs.

coffee_dregs 17y ago

IANAL but it seems as though a lawsuit would be filed pretty quickly if Apple blocked Adobe's interpreted apps and didn't block Rhomobile/Unity3D/MonoTouch interpreted apps. Seems fair to block possibly harmful technologies, not competitive competitors. We all got pissed at Microsoft when they were giving themselves preferential treatment, but what if Microsoft had said "eeerrrrmmm, Wordperfect is no longer welcome on Windows, but AbiWord is okay".

ghshephard 17y ago
Okay, I'll bite. What law is being violated by Apple deciding who they wish to partner with and selectively give advantages (and disadvantages) to. What an amazing number of people (hackers included) don't understand from the 1999 ruling against Microsoft, is that Microsoft was ruled a Monopoly. Now that, per se, is certainly not illegal, but once you are a Monopoly, a large number of activities that previously were allowed, all of a sudden are now restricted. In the case of Microsoft, it was attempting to leverage a Monopoly in one market (Operating Systems) to takeover another one (Browsers). Apple is so, so, far away from being a Monopoly in any market that it's laughable. Profitable - yes. But I think they have like something of 25% of Market Share for Smart Phones, and less than 3% of the market for Mobile phones. And Android is aggressively courting developers/users who are interested in their Open and flexible platform. So, no - Apple is completely free to disallow competitors, and put them at a disadvantage, while allowing the Unity/Rhomobile's of the world.

orangecat 17y ago

Of course. And even before 3.3.1 they had the ability to reject your app for any reason they felt like; see Google Voice. This new clause doesn't actually change anything in reality; it just pretends to make the process more objective.