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From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

31 points by vienno 10y ago

redsummer 10y ago
The Swedish press and government will publish anything positive about Syrians in Sweden. But they will not publish anything about the massive increase in rapes.
- bobowzki 10y ago
  references?
  - kbart 10y ago
    "On Monday, police in the Swedish city of Östersund advised women not to go outdoors alone following a string of public assaults and sex attacks in the past three weeks"[1]. Crime increase is huge, just google for independent news sources that were not silenced by governments. http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/cologne-is-every-day-europes-rape-epidemic/news-story/e2e618e17ad4400b5ed65045e65e141d http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/cologne...
    - eveningcoffee 10y ago
      Please be careful with so called independent news sources. There is a lot of noise around Sweden by the foreign state controlled media manipulation organizations.
staticelf 10y ago
I am a Swede and can say that SVT is not a trustworthy source of news. Pretty much no swedish media is. SVT is a bit like Fox news but for the left and we have other news groups in Sweden that are like Fox news for the right. That is the state of the Swedish media. SOURCE: 52% voted for the greens (left) and pretty much the overwhelming majority of what's left voted red (left) in a recent scientific poll. http://jmg.gu.se/aktuellt/Nyheter/fulltext//journalist-11.cid1078685 http://jmg.gu.se/aktuellt/Nyheter/fulltext//journalist-11.ci...
- erikrothoff 10y ago
  And I am a Swede and would consider taking your comment with a huge grain of salt.
  - staticelf 10y ago
    Of course, as long as the media report world views that confirm your political opinion it's probably the best media outlet in the country. Am I right?
    - croon 10y ago
      I'm not sure what this argument is. It's equally likely that you dislike it because it doesn't conform to your views, regardless who's "right".
      - staticelf 10y ago
        It is an argument that shows I care about the truth, not political opinion when reading about the world.
        piva00 10y ago
        The "truth" in this case might just be based on your bias also, don't you agree? The parent comment could just as equally care about the truth in his own bias, who is the one who can judge what is objectively the truth or not?
  - krona 10y ago
    I have relatives in Sweden and I find the disparity between what is reported by external (non-Swedish) media about events happening in Sweden and what the Swedish mainstream media itself reports is deeply disturbing.
    - petriw 10y ago
      I have relatives living in the USA and the news they see from Sweden seems to make them think Sweden is descending into chaos. Their imagination had run quite wild.
return0 10y ago
These sentimental pieces do not help. At this point it's fair to say that europeans know the struggle of (legitimate) refugees. The actual solution is to end the war in Syria, instead of waiting for the rest of the country to flee, and then boast about how humane we are.
- tajen 10y ago
  I've always considered moving populations was a crime against humanity because it stems so many problems. The UN and the UCJ (The Haye) doesn't assume this, but I wonder whether they've ever considered it. Whether it's Syrians, various places in Africa, Palestinians, it's often at the root of many wars. Also, French people think it's our duty to "export peace" to Syria. It's costing us €10-15bn (source: Our defense cost is €32bn per year), on top of €6bn new policemen recruited after the attacks. It's €900 per year per person in age of working when our average yearly revenue is only €22k. We're just choked. I mean either the UN coordinates the attack and the cost against Syria, either we shouldn't be there. It seems like the whole world is involved anyway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War#toc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Syr...
d33 10y ago
Why do refugees need to go to as far as Sweden to escape war? Why wouldn't they stop at the nearest EU country, or even closer to Syria?
- return0 10y ago
  mainly welfare reasons, and also parts of their family are already in northern europe.
- pawadu 10y ago
  They actually explain this in some stories. For example, some people had friends and relatives in Sweden. Some choose it because Swedens track record in human rights. Also, the nearest EU countries were Turkey and Greece then Italy and Hungary who don't seem to accept refugees at this point.
  - return0 10y ago
    Greece and italy accept and house refugees. They just don't want to stay here.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- gambiting 10y ago
  A good analogy would be, if you were very thirsty, but there were no shops around and you had no money. You would walk up to the nearest house and ask for some water. But if they refuse, would you stand there and demand they give you water, or would you just go to the next house up the street and try again? I feel like this is similar - refugees are met with animosity in good case and outright aggression in worst, so they just keep on moving until they get to the place that will accept them.
  - return0 10y ago
    Not correct. Refugees stay in entry-point countries until their refugee application is processed, which can take months. Meanwhile, many of them seek to find illegal ways to move up north.
pawadu 10y ago
My take from the article: 1. the "Syrian refugees" are actually very different people with different backgrounds. 2. most lived the very calm lives until they lost home and family in the war 3. they seem to be trying to adjust to the new life and a new culture. but can you really do that without a job and some Swedish friends?
kartan 10y ago
It is hard to understand the hard situation that this people has, and is still, living. But when I read about how this guy says "As a child, I used to watch a cartoon on TV. The show featured the main character Nils and his friend Mårten the goose." I can feel totally related to him. It is just a TV cartoon, but it is also a treasured memory of Sweden that I had as a kid. It is worth reading the stories of this people and thanks to this article it is easier to truly feel their humanity.
DominikR 10y ago
I read the other day that Sweden had to cancel the Earth Hour event where they turn of lights for an hour because the last time they did in 2015 many gang rapes occurred which were committed by refugees. (even 12 year olds were raped) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Hour#2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Hour#2016 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3499108/Earth-hour-cancelled-migrant-rape-Swedish-town-refuses-turn-lights-protect-women-attacks.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3499108/Earth-hour-c... That's what you get when you let young women decide on anything related to the nations security. They are the one's who were holding the "refugees are welcome" signs, they are the ones who overwhelmingly vote for Socialists. I live by the way in the EU so I'm also affected by all of this. Some might say it's heartless but if I saw today a women getting raped or beaten by a refugee on the streets I wouldn't even help her. A year ago she was likely one of those who was calling people like me (I'm against inviting millions to come to the EU like Merkel did) a racist in order to shut us up. Now live with the consequences.
- gambiting 10y ago
  No offence, but dailymail links should be banned on HN. It's just a vile website that is full of BS on literally any topic it touches. Whatever gets them most clicks/sold newspapers, basically.
  - DominikR 10y ago
    Okay, let's just censor news that you don't like. I on the other hand live in a EU country that is the main target for these refugees and I can tell you this stuff (in particular rapes) is real and you calling it BS isn't going to change the reality of what is going on here.
    - petriw 10y ago
      Daily Mail isn't news, it's poorly researched clickbait. Rape is horrible and I'm certain immigrants also rape, just as the natives do. But let's not kid ourselves, at least in my home country Sweden the number of sexual offences (including rape) have not increased significantly over time despite decades of scaremongering news about them, including on swedish state tv. I base this on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden#Victim_surveys https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden#Victim_surveys And in Swedish more recent: https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/valdtakt-och-sexualbrott.html https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/valdtakt-och-sexu... We'll see what the numbers for 2015 and 2016 say, but I somehow doubt they'll show a country in free fall despite 163k asylum seekers in 2015.
barpet 10y ago
Why should Europe feel responsible for these people ? Europe has a ton of problems with roma people and the poor. Why should a newly integrated Syrian cook should earn more than a middle aged women in Romania ?
- kartan 10y ago
  > Why should Europe feel responsible for these people? Because they are human beings. I think than that's more than enough. BTW Europe has a lot of really big problems with Banks. And that has a lot bigger impact that anything else in our economy. That's also something interesting to talk about.
  - nostromo123 10y ago
    "Because they are human beings" is a naive answer. My parents have worked 45 years as teachers in Romania, and now they get the equivalent of 300$ monthly combined in pension money. Romania is also not such a cheap country as you'd think. Now, seeing as how even non-refugee migrants from typical holiday countries in North Africa get lots more money than that per month in the German welfare system, we have two options for thinking about the situation: 1) Conclude that my parents are not human beings, so it is right that they should receive less money than the migrants in richer countries 2) My parents should also be entitled to the same money, and Europe should feel responsible for them, too Which one do you pick?
    - barpet 10y ago
      According to these people your parents are at fault :-). They should have either 1) worked in the German factories in Romania and get +200$ more 2) immigrate to Germany to work in the German factories and earn +2000$ more 3) immigrate to Germany and raise you as a German My point is. Romania should not feel responsible and should not do as Germany dictates. Romania is trying hard to overcome its corrupt post-communist past but they have a lot of problems to deal with in the first place.
      - 10y ago

31 points by vienno 10y ago

The Swedish press and government will publish anything positive about Syrians in Sweden. But they will not publish anything about the massive increase in rapes.

bobowzki 10y ago
references?
- kbart 10y ago
  "On Monday, police in the Swedish city of Östersund advised women not to go outdoors alone following a string of public assaults and sex attacks in the past three weeks"[1]. Crime increase is huge, just google for independent news sources that were not silenced by governments. http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/cologne-is-every-day-europes-rape-epidemic/news-story/e2e618e17ad4400b5ed65045e65e141d http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/cologne...
  - eveningcoffee 10y ago
    Please be careful with so called independent news sources. There is a lot of noise around Sweden by the foreign state controlled media manipulation organizations.

staticelf 10y ago

I am a Swede and can say that SVT is not a trustworthy source of news. Pretty much no swedish media is. SVT is a bit like Fox news but for the left and we have other news groups in Sweden that are like Fox news for the right. That is the state of the Swedish media. SOURCE: 52% voted for the greens (left) and pretty much the overwhelming majority of what's left voted red (left) in a recent scientific poll. http://jmg.gu.se/aktuellt/Nyheter/fulltext//journalist-11.cid1078685 http://jmg.gu.se/aktuellt/Nyheter/fulltext//journalist-11.ci...

erikrothoff 10y ago
And I am a Swede and would consider taking your comment with a huge grain of salt.
- staticelf 10y ago
  Of course, as long as the media report world views that confirm your political opinion it's probably the best media outlet in the country. Am I right?
  - croon 10y ago
    I'm not sure what this argument is. It's equally likely that you dislike it because it doesn't conform to your views, regardless who's "right".
    - staticelf 10y ago
      It is an argument that shows I care about the truth, not political opinion when reading about the world.
      - piva00 10y ago
        The "truth" in this case might just be based on your bias also, don't you agree? The parent comment could just as equally care about the truth in his own bias, who is the one who can judge what is objectively the truth or not?
- krona 10y ago
  I have relatives in Sweden and I find the disparity between what is reported by external (non-Swedish) media about events happening in Sweden and what the Swedish mainstream media itself reports is deeply disturbing.
  - petriw 10y ago
    I have relatives living in the USA and the news they see from Sweden seems to make them think Sweden is descending into chaos. Their imagination had run quite wild.

return0 10y ago

These sentimental pieces do not help. At this point it's fair to say that europeans know the struggle of (legitimate) refugees. The actual solution is to end the war in Syria, instead of waiting for the rest of the country to flee, and then boast about how humane we are.

tajen 10y ago
I've always considered moving populations was a crime against humanity because it stems so many problems. The UN and the UCJ (The Haye) doesn't assume this, but I wonder whether they've ever considered it. Whether it's Syrians, various places in Africa, Palestinians, it's often at the root of many wars. Also, French people think it's our duty to "export peace" to Syria. It's costing us €10-15bn (source: Our defense cost is €32bn per year), on top of €6bn new policemen recruited after the attacks. It's €900 per year per person in age of working when our average yearly revenue is only €22k. We're just choked. I mean either the UN coordinates the attack and the cost against Syria, either we shouldn't be there. It seems like the whole world is involved anyway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War#toc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Syr...

d33 10y ago

Why do refugees need to go to as far as Sweden to escape war? Why wouldn't they stop at the nearest EU country, or even closer to Syria?

return0 10y ago
mainly welfare reasons, and also parts of their family are already in northern europe.
pawadu 10y ago
They actually explain this in some stories. For example, some people had friends and relatives in Sweden. Some choose it because Swedens track record in human rights. Also, the nearest EU countries were Turkey and Greece then Italy and Hungary who don't seem to accept refugees at this point.
- return0 10y ago
  Greece and italy accept and house refugees. They just don't want to stay here.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
gambiting 10y ago
A good analogy would be, if you were very thirsty, but there were no shops around and you had no money. You would walk up to the nearest house and ask for some water. But if they refuse, would you stand there and demand they give you water, or would you just go to the next house up the street and try again? I feel like this is similar - refugees are met with animosity in good case and outright aggression in worst, so they just keep on moving until they get to the place that will accept them.
- return0 10y ago
  Not correct. Refugees stay in entry-point countries until their refugee application is processed, which can take months. Meanwhile, many of them seek to find illegal ways to move up north.

pawadu 10y ago

My take from the article: 1. the "Syrian refugees" are actually very different people with different backgrounds. 2. most lived the very calm lives until they lost home and family in the war 3. they seem to be trying to adjust to the new life and a new culture. but can you really do that without a job and some Swedish friends?

kartan 10y ago

It is hard to understand the hard situation that this people has, and is still, living. But when I read about how this guy says "As a child, I used to watch a cartoon on TV. The show featured the main character Nils and his friend Mårten the goose." I can feel totally related to him. It is just a TV cartoon, but it is also a treasured memory of Sweden that I had as a kid. It is worth reading the stories of this people and thanks to this article it is easier to truly feel their humanity.

DominikR 10y ago

I read the other day that Sweden had to cancel the Earth Hour event where they turn of lights for an hour because the last time they did in 2015 many gang rapes occurred which were committed by refugees. (even 12 year olds were raped) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Hour#2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Hour#2016 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3499108/Earth-hour-cancelled-migrant-rape-Swedish-town-refuses-turn-lights-protect-women-attacks.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3499108/Earth-hour-c... That's what you get when you let young women decide on anything related to the nations security. They are the one's who were holding the "refugees are welcome" signs, they are the ones who overwhelmingly vote for Socialists. I live by the way in the EU so I'm also affected by all of this. Some might say it's heartless but if I saw today a women getting raped or beaten by a refugee on the streets I wouldn't even help her. A year ago she was likely one of those who was calling people like me (I'm against inviting millions to come to the EU like Merkel did) a racist in order to shut us up. Now live with the consequences.

gambiting 10y ago
No offence, but dailymail links should be banned on HN. It's just a vile website that is full of BS on literally any topic it touches. Whatever gets them most clicks/sold newspapers, basically.
- DominikR 10y ago
  Okay, let's just censor news that you don't like. I on the other hand live in a EU country that is the main target for these refugees and I can tell you this stuff (in particular rapes) is real and you calling it BS isn't going to change the reality of what is going on here.
  - petriw 10y ago
    Daily Mail isn't news, it's poorly researched clickbait. Rape is horrible and I'm certain immigrants also rape, just as the natives do. But let's not kid ourselves, at least in my home country Sweden the number of sexual offences (including rape) have not increased significantly over time despite decades of scaremongering news about them, including on swedish state tv. I base this on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden#Victim_surveys https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden#Victim_surveys And in Swedish more recent: https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/valdtakt-och-sexualbrott.html https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/valdtakt-och-sexu... We'll see what the numbers for 2015 and 2016 say, but I somehow doubt they'll show a country in free fall despite 163k asylum seekers in 2015.

barpet 10y ago

Why should Europe feel responsible for these people ? Europe has a ton of problems with roma people and the poor. Why should a newly integrated Syrian cook should earn more than a middle aged women in Romania ?

kartan 10y ago
> Why should Europe feel responsible for these people? Because they are human beings. I think than that's more than enough. BTW Europe has a lot of really big problems with Banks. And that has a lot bigger impact that anything else in our economy. That's also something interesting to talk about.
- nostromo123 10y ago
  "Because they are human beings" is a naive answer. My parents have worked 45 years as teachers in Romania, and now they get the equivalent of 300$ monthly combined in pension money. Romania is also not such a cheap country as you'd think. Now, seeing as how even non-refugee migrants from typical holiday countries in North Africa get lots more money than that per month in the German welfare system, we have two options for thinking about the situation: 1) Conclude that my parents are not human beings, so it is right that they should receive less money than the migrants in richer countries 2) My parents should also be entitled to the same money, and Europe should feel responsible for them, too Which one do you pick?
  - barpet 10y ago
    According to these people your parents are at fault :-). They should have either 1) worked in the German factories in Romania and get +200$ more 2) immigrate to Germany to work in the German factories and earn +2000$ more 3) immigrate to Germany and raise you as a German My point is. Romania should not feel responsible and should not do as Germany dictates. Romania is trying hard to overcome its corrupt post-communist past but they have a lot of problems to deal with in the first place.
    - 10y ago