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> I dispute that. I generally stay at companies for 4 or 5 years, and I know multiple people who have stayed at Google for 10 years. Yeah, but Google isn't rep

• jimmywanger 10y ago
  > You said, "Counteroffers are poison for both the employee and the company." That's a very strong position you're taking. My opinion is that counteroffers are poison, generally because some employers or employees have unrealistic views on what loyalty means, and it always turns out badly for the employee. > This is true, but inapplicable to the decision of whether to take a counteroffer. If the employer, management, and employee have a good, realistic and mature view on employee/employer relationships and trust, that is correct. However, it's fairly common (especially for new managers) for them to think of employees looking for other jobs as a personal affront, and will make your life miserable. Life sometimes isn't as tidy as it should be.
  • imagist 10y ago
    > However, it's fairly common (especially for new managers) for them to think of employees looking for other jobs as a personal affront, and will make your life miserable. Why would someone who takes my looking for other jobs as a personal affront make a counteroffer?
    • jimmywanger 10y ago
      Many reasons. Maybe he thinks you're indispensable to the team, but will never fully trust you any more. Maybe he needs to close a deal with an external customer, and he doesn't have enough time to train up another person to take care of your job responsibilities, and he really needs to close that round of funding. Maybe his hiring pipeline is dry, either because your skills are hard to find, or maybe because candidates picked up on his managerial faults. Maybe he needs time to vet external consultants to take over your job, and needs you to stick around to train them, stick around longer than 2 weeks or however long you gave notice for. All these situations are the worst. He thinks he needs you, but doesn't really want you around. That way you stick around in an environment where management doesn't like you, and whenever there is a viable alternative, they'll dump you for the alternative. Edit: Another reason why the situation is bad is because management will never let on why exactly they're trying to retain you. They'll string you along until they figure that you're not longer indispensable, and then cut you lose. And you have no idea whether or not that's what he's actually thinking, or "I am an adult and I can respect the logical choices that this guy is going to make to better his career."
      • imagist 10y ago
        > Many reasons. Maybe he thinks you're indispensable to the team, but will never fully trust you any more. It's my default position that my boss doesn't trust me. As you yourself earlier said, "I agree there should be no trust here, but we are conditioned to think that there should be." So, the answer is don't do that. Don't give in to the conditioning. > Maybe he needs to close a deal with an external customer, and he doesn't have enough time to train up another person to take care of your job responsibilities, and he really needs to close that round of funding. It's relatively clear when this is happening, though, because it's hard to hide when your replacement has been hired. If you can see this happening up front, you can leverage this to counter the counteroffer by offering to delay starting at the new place for increased pay (with your new employer's consent of course). > Maybe his hiring pipeline is dry, either because your skills are hard to find, or maybe because candidates picked up on his managerial faults. This sounds like an excellent situation to be in as an employee, as it means you have found a local minima in the supply-to-demand ratio. > Maybe he needs time to vet external consultants to take over your job, and needs you to stick around to train them, stick around longer than 2 weeks or however long you gave notice for. Again, it's relatively clear when this is happening, and in this case you may be able to work out a deal. > All these situations are the worst. He thinks he needs you, but doesn't really want you around. That way you stick around in an environment where management doesn't like you, and whenever there is a viable alternative, they'll dump you for the alternative. This sounds like literally every job ever. Let's be clear here: at every job you've ever worked at, you're a cost center, and if you've worked yourself into a high-paying position, you're one of the largest cost centers. If your value ceases to be worth the money you're being paid they will get rid of you regardless of how they feel about you: it's hard to make feelings outweigh numbers. The problem isn't that a counteroffer has changed the situation--the situation has not changed. The problem is that you didn't understand that was the situation until you received the counteroffer. If you're looking to be friends with your boss, I suppose that's a bad situation in that this might ruin your friendship with your boss. But if you're looking to be friends with your boss, that's going to significantly limit your career in more ways than just this. Your boss is not your friend.