5 ms·

When is the rest of EU coming up? Same regulations everywhere I can't understand the hold up.

by kyriakos 10y ago

rememberlenny 10y ago
Might be an off thought, but maybe a disproportionate fraud comes from the area
- kyriakos 10y ago
  I live in Cyprus which is a very small market so I won't refer to it, but knowing I can get much better rates than stripe's in Greece for example is an indication that fraud is low in the region.
- Symbiote 10y ago
  The wealthier EU countries are active or in beta. They're all cheaper than the US (1.4% rather than 2.9% fees), fraud is lower in the EU.
  - the-dude 10y ago
    They were forced by the EU, they capped the fees
    - kyriakos 10y ago
      Where did you hear about this?
      - thesimon 10y ago
        EU Regulation 2015/751 (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2015.123.01.0001.01.ENG&toc=OJ:L:2015:123:FULL http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:O...) Consumer Debit Interchange: 0.2% Consumer Credit Interchange: 0.3% If they didn't lower their rates, they would've been pretty unattractive for a lot of customers. (And still their rates remain quite high if you are mainly selling B2C)
troels 10y ago
There's not though. Each EU member state is a sovereign country and they each have their own laws regarding things like trans border payments. There's not even a single currency.
- Symbiote 10y ago
  Estonia, Greece and Cyprus use the Euro, but unlike the other EU Euro countries aren't available on Stripe. I haven't worked in finance, but as I understand it, the regulations are supposed to allow cross border businesses to operate. That's why the City of London banks area worried about leaving the EU and losing that right. The Eurozone especially has regulations to remove barriers to cross border payments. https://www.paymill.com/ https://www.paymill.com/ says it works for all of the EU except Cyprus. Perhaps an oversight? This might be of interest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
  - vertex-four 10y ago
    The EU makes it easier for more businesses to operate across borders, but banks and payment companies are still highly regulated on a per-country basis, with few real standards for having regulators talk to each other. The main downside of not being in the EU is that it'd be harder for the banks' clients to move money to the EU, likely trigger additional taxes, etc.
  - davidverhasselt 10y ago
    There's a conspiracy theory that they're actively not rolling out to Estonia because the e-residency feature makes for a possible interesting competitor to Stripe Atlas.
- kyriakos 10y ago
  I am not an expert on this topic but... The central banks of eurozone countries are governed directly by the European central bank. They are not controlled by each member state's government. Eurozone also means they all use a single currency and are all members of the single European market. There are no different laws for cross border payments. So I guess there must be another reason we don't know about.
jwr 10y ago
Braintree doesn't ignore the EU like Stripe. Use Braintree.
- eps 10y ago
  You misspelled Paymill, which is in fact an exact and shameless clone of Stripe. Braintree is similar, but it evolved from an pre-Stripe type of an older convoluted platform. They still had tiered pricing just a couple of years ago. It is also owned by PayPal, so that alone can be a factor for some people to sidestep it.
  - jwr 10y ago
    Yes, there is also Paymill. And frankly, I don't care if something is a "shameless clone". I do care about whether I can do business. Ever since Stripe was created, it did not want my business, and to this day I cannot use Stripe. Which is why I use Braintree and tell people to use Braintree or Paymill.
- kyriakos 10y ago
  I am using Braintree but the more options the better.
  - jwr 10y ago
    While I agree in general, for the moment the fact is that Stripe doesn't care about our business, while others do. I am emphasizing this because Stripe seems to get a lot of goodwill here on HN, in spite of them basically ignoring large parts of the world. If you point that out, people will jump to excuses and explanations (laws are complicated, etc) — which is fine, but facts are facts: as it is now, Stripe doesn't want my business.
    - kyriakos 10y ago
      You are right about that and even if stripe opens for business here tomorrow it doesn't mean we will switch away from Braintree. Another common issue raised on HN is that Braintree is owned by PayPal which at least to me means absolutely nothing since I never had an issue with either companies.

When is the rest of EU coming up? Same regulations everywhere I can't understand the hold up.

rememberlenny 10y ago

Might be an off thought, but maybe a disproportionate fraud comes from the area

kyriakos 10y ago
I live in Cyprus which is a very small market so I won't refer to it, but knowing I can get much better rates than stripe's in Greece for example is an indication that fraud is low in the region.
Symbiote 10y ago
The wealthier EU countries are active or in beta. They're all cheaper than the US (1.4% rather than 2.9% fees), fraud is lower in the EU.
- the-dude 10y ago
  They were forced by the EU, they capped the fees
  - kyriakos 10y ago
    Where did you hear about this?
    - thesimon 10y ago
      EU Regulation 2015/751 (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2015.123.01.0001.01.ENG&toc=OJ:L:2015:123:FULL http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:O...) Consumer Debit Interchange: 0.2% Consumer Credit Interchange: 0.3% If they didn't lower their rates, they would've been pretty unattractive for a lot of customers. (And still their rates remain quite high if you are mainly selling B2C)

troels 10y ago

There's not though. Each EU member state is a sovereign country and they each have their own laws regarding things like trans border payments. There's not even a single currency.

Symbiote 10y ago
Estonia, Greece and Cyprus use the Euro, but unlike the other EU Euro countries aren't available on Stripe. I haven't worked in finance, but as I understand it, the regulations are supposed to allow cross border businesses to operate. That's why the City of London banks area worried about leaving the EU and losing that right. The Eurozone especially has regulations to remove barriers to cross border payments. https://www.paymill.com/ https://www.paymill.com/ says it works for all of the EU except Cyprus. Perhaps an oversight? This might be of interest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
- vertex-four 10y ago
  The EU makes it easier for more businesses to operate across borders, but banks and payment companies are still highly regulated on a per-country basis, with few real standards for having regulators talk to each other. The main downside of not being in the EU is that it'd be harder for the banks' clients to move money to the EU, likely trigger additional taxes, etc.
- davidverhasselt 10y ago
  There's a conspiracy theory that they're actively not rolling out to Estonia because the e-residency feature makes for a possible interesting competitor to Stripe Atlas.
kyriakos 10y ago
I am not an expert on this topic but... The central banks of eurozone countries are governed directly by the European central bank. They are not controlled by each member state's government. Eurozone also means they all use a single currency and are all members of the single European market. There are no different laws for cross border payments. So I guess there must be another reason we don't know about.

jwr 10y ago

Braintree doesn't ignore the EU like Stripe. Use Braintree.

eps 10y ago
You misspelled Paymill, which is in fact an exact and shameless clone of Stripe. Braintree is similar, but it evolved from an pre-Stripe type of an older convoluted platform. They still had tiered pricing just a couple of years ago. It is also owned by PayPal, so that alone can be a factor for some people to sidestep it.
- jwr 10y ago
  Yes, there is also Paymill. And frankly, I don't care if something is a "shameless clone". I do care about whether I can do business. Ever since Stripe was created, it did not want my business, and to this day I cannot use Stripe. Which is why I use Braintree and tell people to use Braintree or Paymill.
kyriakos 10y ago
I am using Braintree but the more options the better.
- jwr 10y ago
  While I agree in general, for the moment the fact is that Stripe doesn't care about our business, while others do. I am emphasizing this because Stripe seems to get a lot of goodwill here on HN, in spite of them basically ignoring large parts of the world. If you point that out, people will jump to excuses and explanations (laws are complicated, etc) — which is fine, but facts are facts: as it is now, Stripe doesn't want my business.
  - kyriakos 10y ago
    You are right about that and even if stripe opens for business here tomorrow it doesn't mean we will switch away from Braintree. Another common issue raised on HN is that Braintree is owned by PayPal which at least to me means absolutely nothing since I never had an issue with either companies.