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> “Who am I to convince patients that they have to suffer longer than they want?” One wonders who he is to convince them that they may end their suffering. I

by wtbob 10y ago

> “Who am I to convince patients that they have to suffer longer than they want?” One wonders who he is to convince them that they may end their suffering. I think that there's something very cold about a society which says, 'on net, the world is better without you in it' not to someone who is a murderer, rapist or traitor but to someone who is depressed or afflicted with cancer. > Last year, De Standaard, a prominent Flemish newspaper, published a long tribute to a depressed mother who was euthanized after being abandoned by her boyfriend and becoming disillusioned by her psychiatric care. “I am forever grateful to her that she handled this so well,” her twenty-four-year-old son told the paper. “I am so glad we were able to say goodbye in a beautiful way.” One wonders if the son attempted to support his mother in life, rather than tell her goodbye. > On the morning on which the euthanasia was scheduled, Boeykens’s daughter, Kerstin, said that she called De Deyn, crying, and begged him to move her mother’s 9 A.M. appointment a few hours later, so that she would have time to drop her children off at school and then drive to the clinic. But De Deyn said that he was booked for the rest of the day. (De Deyn denies that this happened.) Records show that Boeykens died at 9:20 A.M., at which point De Deyn removed her brain and performed an autopsy. I don't really know if there's anything more to add to this vignette. It's like something out of Brave New World (a book which, incidentally, I've always found far more prophetic than 1984).

ubernostrum 10y ago
Your whole comment is kinda coming across as searching for the worst possible interpretations of statements so you can attack the person delivering them and hope it'll rub off on the argument. Maybe don't do that? One wonders if the son attempted to support his mother in life, rather than tell her goodbye. Also: when my mother was diagnosed with (terminal) cancer, she tried the treatments at first. Chemo, radiation, everything. Doctors told her at best it might buy her a few more months. After learning what those treatments would do to her, she made the decision that a few months of that wasn't worth it, and stopped treatment. Do you think it was my job as a son to try to force her to continue, out of "support" for her?
- wtbob 10y ago
  > Do you think it was my job as a son to try to force her to continue, out of "support" for her? No; there's a major difference between refusing further treatment and pursuing suicide.
  - AstralStorm 10y ago
    There is not really. Refusing euthanasia to a cancer patient is essentially a sentence to a painful death or morphine overdose if that even works as a pain killer. The latter is a bit better but not too much.
dvtv75 10y ago
> "One wonders who he is to convince them that they may end their suffering." It's worth noting here that explaining that a patient can end their suffering is very different from convincing a patient to end their suffering. Yes, I realise you wrote "convince them that they may end their suffering," but makes little sense. Convincing someone that they may end their suffering would go like this: "You can end your suffering." "Can I?" "Yes." "Oh."
- wtbob 10y ago
  > Yes, I realise you wrote "convince them that they may end their suffering," but makes little sense. Remember when you were a kid and your mother explained to you the difference between 'may' and 'can'? Yes, it is possible to end one's suffering (in this world, anyway — no guarantees about the next), but it is not licit.

by wtbob 10y ago

ubernostrum 10y ago

Your whole comment is kinda coming across as searching for the worst possible interpretations of statements so you can attack the person delivering them and hope it'll rub off on the argument. Maybe don't do that? One wonders if the son attempted to support his mother in life, rather than tell her goodbye. Also: when my mother was diagnosed with (terminal) cancer, she tried the treatments at first. Chemo, radiation, everything. Doctors told her at best it might buy her a few more months. After learning what those treatments would do to her, she made the decision that a few months of that wasn't worth it, and stopped treatment. Do you think it was my job as a son to try to force her to continue, out of "support" for her?

wtbob 10y ago
> Do you think it was my job as a son to try to force her to continue, out of "support" for her? No; there's a major difference between refusing further treatment and pursuing suicide.
- AstralStorm 10y ago
  There is not really. Refusing euthanasia to a cancer patient is essentially a sentence to a painful death or morphine overdose if that even works as a pain killer. The latter is a bit better but not too much.

dvtv75 10y ago

> "One wonders who he is to convince them that they may end their suffering." It's worth noting here that explaining that a patient can end their suffering is very different from convincing a patient to end their suffering. Yes, I realise you wrote "convince them that they may end their suffering," but makes little sense. Convincing someone that they may end their suffering would go like this: "You can end your suffering." "Can I?" "Yes." "Oh."

wtbob 10y ago
> Yes, I realise you wrote "convince them that they may end their suffering," but makes little sense. Remember when you were a kid and your mother explained to you the difference between 'may' and 'can'? Yes, it is possible to end one's suffering (in this world, anyway — no guarantees about the next), but it is not licit.