4 ms·

> Motivation is the wrong thing to go after. Discipline is the key. Please provide either some sources or argumentation for such a significant claim.

wrongc0ntinent 10y ago
Source is clearly from experience. My experience agrees with his/her conclusion.
taphangum 10y ago
There's tons out there if you will look.
j45 10y ago
There's lots of positive data eschewing the benefits of pursuing discipline as the master skill, because once you learn that you can learn to be disciplined at any skill you need, you can more effectively learn and do anything that needs to be done and get to the task of being successful towards your goals. Discipline to do what needs to be done will always beat constantly seeking motivation, because motivation implies a lack of it to begin with and staying that way. Discipline for me is like making sure one takes a regular bath. Motivation is a temporary mental bath that constantly needs renewing. Discipline ingrains habits that bypass a lot of that. Discipline makes sure to keep you in a position to perform and remain productive. In any hard task, great, aspirational, much of the things that need to be done are heavy lifting, mundane, critical and a lot of drudgery, not tasks anyone would be motivated to complete, and often the winner are those who can be disciplined to do what needs to be done. They say time and learning from experience is the best teacher, I'm slowly beginning to realize this is true. In our case, talking about swimming, reading swimming, and watching swimming doesn't make up for jumping in the pool and realizing you don't need motivation to stay afloat in the water, only discipline to do what needs to be done to survive before picking a direction in which to thrive. Some interesting reads that shouldn't be examined internally by an open mind and not one seeking social or external validation for a belief in something: - A few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12557335 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12557335 - https://www.hotjar.com/blog/the-passion-fallacy https://www.hotjar.com/blog/the-passion-fallacy - http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/opinion/sunday/learning-self-control.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/opinion/sunday/learning-se... - IQ isn't as valuable as self-discipline: http://time.com/12086/how-to-make-your-kids-smarter-10-steps-backed-by-science/ http://time.com/12086/how-to-make-your-kids-smarter-10-steps... - http://time.com/4175356/habits-routines/ http://time.com/4175356/habits-routines/
- projektir 10y ago
  Not a single one of your links supports your claim. Most (all?) are not even talking about motivation or discipline at all. One talks about self-control, which is a whole other topic and closely related to motivation. Here's a link that would be relevant to what we're talking about: http://growthzer.com/substitute-for-motivation/ http://growthzer.com/substitute-for-motivation/ It could be argued with. But, at the end of the day, it's just a blog post. Here's another blog post, with which I agree more: http://zenhabits.net/discipline/ http://zenhabits.net/discipline/ Your statements cannot be read properly because you are using a term far outside its normal definition yet you have not defined it. Discipline is traditionally the execution of codes, norms, and orders, often involving an institution or a person who will inflict punishment or other, well, motivational tools to make you comply with those codes, norms, and orders. The blog I linked goes over this. You are vastly oversimplifying what motivation is and constructing strawmen, it's a fairly complex subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation > Motivation is a temporary mental bath that constantly needs renewing. > Intrinsic motivation can be long-lasting and self-sustaining. Interestingly enough, this sort of motivation is perceived as superior to the motivation you're suggesting (if you are using the word discipline), which is punishment based. I can't help but think that this is simply a case of drastic misuse of terms. If there was something of substance to be said here, I'd expect to see a discussion about extrinsic/intrinsic motivation, how it plays into self-control, and related pathways. Pop-culture uses of discipline, grit, and other nebulous terms should not be used as truth.

wrongc0ntinent 10y ago

Source is clearly from experience. My experience agrees with his/her conclusion.

taphangum 10y ago

There's tons out there if you will look.

j45 10y ago

There's lots of positive data eschewing the benefits of pursuing discipline as the master skill, because once you learn that you can learn to be disciplined at any skill you need, you can more effectively learn and do anything that needs to be done and get to the task of being successful towards your goals. Discipline to do what needs to be done will always beat constantly seeking motivation, because motivation implies a lack of it to begin with and staying that way. Discipline for me is like making sure one takes a regular bath. Motivation is a temporary mental bath that constantly needs renewing. Discipline ingrains habits that bypass a lot of that. Discipline makes sure to keep you in a position to perform and remain productive. In any hard task, great, aspirational, much of the things that need to be done are heavy lifting, mundane, critical and a lot of drudgery, not tasks anyone would be motivated to complete, and often the winner are those who can be disciplined to do what needs to be done. They say time and learning from experience is the best teacher, I'm slowly beginning to realize this is true. In our case, talking about swimming, reading swimming, and watching swimming doesn't make up for jumping in the pool and realizing you don't need motivation to stay afloat in the water, only discipline to do what needs to be done to survive before picking a direction in which to thrive. Some interesting reads that shouldn't be examined internally by an open mind and not one seeking social or external validation for a belief in something: - A few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12557335 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12557335 - https://www.hotjar.com/blog/the-passion-fallacy https://www.hotjar.com/blog/the-passion-fallacy - http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/opinion/sunday/learning-self-control.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/opinion/sunday/learning-se... - IQ isn't as valuable as self-discipline: http://time.com/12086/how-to-make-your-kids-smarter-10-steps-backed-by-science/ http://time.com/12086/how-to-make-your-kids-smarter-10-steps... - http://time.com/4175356/habits-routines/ http://time.com/4175356/habits-routines/

projektir 10y ago
Not a single one of your links supports your claim. Most (all?) are not even talking about motivation or discipline at all. One talks about self-control, which is a whole other topic and closely related to motivation. Here's a link that would be relevant to what we're talking about: http://growthzer.com/substitute-for-motivation/ http://growthzer.com/substitute-for-motivation/ It could be argued with. But, at the end of the day, it's just a blog post. Here's another blog post, with which I agree more: http://zenhabits.net/discipline/ http://zenhabits.net/discipline/ Your statements cannot be read properly because you are using a term far outside its normal definition yet you have not defined it. Discipline is traditionally the execution of codes, norms, and orders, often involving an institution or a person who will inflict punishment or other, well, motivational tools to make you comply with those codes, norms, and orders. The blog I linked goes over this. You are vastly oversimplifying what motivation is and constructing strawmen, it's a fairly complex subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation > Motivation is a temporary mental bath that constantly needs renewing. > Intrinsic motivation can be long-lasting and self-sustaining. Interestingly enough, this sort of motivation is perceived as superior to the motivation you're suggesting (if you are using the word discipline), which is punishment based. I can't help but think that this is simply a case of drastic misuse of terms. If there was something of substance to be said here, I'd expect to see a discussion about extrinsic/intrinsic motivation, how it plays into self-control, and related pathways. Pop-culture uses of discipline, grit, and other nebulous terms should not be used as truth.