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> Private competition almost always ends in monopoly or trust [truce? oligopoly?] anyway. Doesn't seem so to me. As far as I can tell, all real life monopolie

by 08-15 10y ago

> Private competition almost always ends in monopoly or trust [truce? oligopoly?] anyway. Doesn't seem so to me. As far as I can tell, all real life monopolies or oligopolies only exist because of intervention by the police state. The canonical examples that come to mind would be Microsoft (only possible because of copyright, a monopoly granted by the police state) and Standard Oil (only possible because of mining concessions, a near monopoly granted by the police state). Here in Germany, Deutsche Bahn (the rail operator) had a practical monopoly on long distance travel, all thanks to a special law granted by the police state. Said law has been repealed by the EU a few years ago (2009 or so), and the competition from long distance buses is fierce now. Can you name any monopoly that ever existed and wasn't created by the police state effectively granting it? (For this argument, it doesn't matter if these police state granted monopolies are a good thing in some sense. I don't think so, but the point is really that competition works unless it is artificially restricted.) > other examples--Coke/Pepsi, IBM/Intel. How does Coke/Pepsi even come close? I see quite a number of caffeinated sugary soft drinks on the market (all equally disgusting). IBM/Intel? Well, IBM had something resembling a monopoly in the mainframe era. I wasn't around back then, but most computers were probably sold to the police state. Intel has had a near monopoly on desktop computers for the past 25 years or so, but only because Microsoft DOS/Windows wouldn't run on anything else, so this is actually an extension of the Microsoft monopoly mentioned above. I'm not sure about the cable companies. Theoretically, is anyone allowed to run a cable from A to B? If no, you can only ever have one cable provider in a given region, again, thanks to artificial rules made by the police state. I'm genuinely curious about any examples of monopolies that developed in a free market.

imagist 10y ago
> Here in Germany, Deutsche Bahn (the rail operator) had a practical monopoly on long distance travel, all thanks to a special law granted by the police state. Said law has been repealed by the EU a few years ago (2009 or so), and the competition from long distance buses is fierce now. Competition within the rail industry? I doubt it. I'd be extraordinarily surprised if any other rail operator arises in Germany--the only way I can see this happening is if a larger rail operator from another country enters Germany. This is a pretty strong example of a monopoly. > I see quite a number of caffeinated sugary soft drinks on the market (all equally disgusting). Look at who bottles them. The vast majority are bottled by either Coca Cola or Pepsi. There's been a surge of attempts at "craft" sodas lately, but most have had little success or been bought by one of the giants. > I'm genuinely curious about any examples of monopolies that developed in a free market. See above.
- detaro 10y ago
  Here in Germany the soda market isn't such a mono-culture, e.g. in my home state the best-selling cola-type drink is made by a local company. Sure, you can get Coca Cola and Pepsi nearly everywhere, but every large supermarket chain has their own brand (made by a variety of companies) and the cool brands aren't the ones owned by multinationals.
- 08-15 10y ago
  > Competition within the rail industry? I doubt it. Not within the rail industry---ownership of the track network makes that impractical. I'm saying DB was protected from other modes of transportation, which ensured their monopoly. The service being sold is not rail transportation, it's transportation. > The vast majority are bottled by either Coca Cola or Pepsi. Looking from Germany, there are Vita-cola, Afri-cola, Fritz-kola. All independent from Coke or Pepsi, and that's only the colas I can think of. All sorts of lemonades serve the same market. > See above What?! Deutsche Bahn is a (near) monopoly precisely because of support from the police state, Coke/Pepsi is not a monopoly, not even close. Neither of these are examples of a monopoly that developed in a free market!

by 08-15 10y ago

imagist 10y ago

> Here in Germany, Deutsche Bahn (the rail operator) had a practical monopoly on long distance travel, all thanks to a special law granted by the police state. Said law has been repealed by the EU a few years ago (2009 or so), and the competition from long distance buses is fierce now. Competition within the rail industry? I doubt it. I'd be extraordinarily surprised if any other rail operator arises in Germany--the only way I can see this happening is if a larger rail operator from another country enters Germany. This is a pretty strong example of a monopoly. > I see quite a number of caffeinated sugary soft drinks on the market (all equally disgusting). Look at who bottles them. The vast majority are bottled by either Coca Cola or Pepsi. There's been a surge of attempts at "craft" sodas lately, but most have had little success or been bought by one of the giants. > I'm genuinely curious about any examples of monopolies that developed in a free market. See above.

detaro 10y ago
Here in Germany the soda market isn't such a mono-culture, e.g. in my home state the best-selling cola-type drink is made by a local company. Sure, you can get Coca Cola and Pepsi nearly everywhere, but every large supermarket chain has their own brand (made by a variety of companies) and the cool brands aren't the ones owned by multinationals.
08-15 10y ago
> Competition within the rail industry? I doubt it. Not within the rail industry---ownership of the track network makes that impractical. I'm saying DB was protected from other modes of transportation, which ensured their monopoly. The service being sold is not rail transportation, it's transportation. > The vast majority are bottled by either Coca Cola or Pepsi. Looking from Germany, there are Vita-cola, Afri-cola, Fritz-kola. All independent from Coke or Pepsi, and that's only the colas I can think of. All sorts of lemonades serve the same market. > See above What?! Deutsche Bahn is a (near) monopoly precisely because of support from the police state, Coke/Pepsi is not a monopoly, not even close. Neither of these are examples of a monopoly that developed in a free market!