4 ms·

> To compare, I spent an hour reading systemd documentation to just find the location of one of the configuration files. And how long did it take you to figure

> To compare, I spent an hour reading systemd documentation to just find the location of one of the configuration files. And how long did it take you to figure out the same thing with sysv init when you were just starting out? I imagine it was more than 0 min. Plus now that you know where that config file is you don't have to look it up again so that cost was once... With my anecdota, I have had no end of problems with bash scripts and sysv init including non deterministic behavior. Anytime i'd run into problems I'd end up having to write complicated bash scripts myself to fix them. Note all of this is to get my applications to run, not fixing linux distribution package inits (which are generally semi well tested). If you look at the distribution package inits, they are typically as complicated as the ones I had to write just already done for you. Its a mess.

falcolas 10y ago
> And how long did it take you to figure out the same thing with sysv init The answer is, and always was, '/etc/init.d'. Upstart lists its directory ('/etc/init') in the first sentence of its second paragraph. SystemD, on the other hand, requires that you first know that they are now called unit files with a .service extension. Once you have that, you can then attempt to find the man page which finally lists the possible directories they can be stored in as any one of of '/etc/systemd/system/', '/run/systemd/system', '/usr/lib/systemd/system', '~/config/systemd/user/', '/etc/systemd/user/', '/run/systemd/user/', '~/.local/share/systemd/user/', or '/usr/lib/systemd/user'. Unless you're tracking down a port opaquely owned by systemd, in which case you then also need to know that systemd refers to them as 'socket activation' services, and that those files end with .socket instead of .service. > I have had no end of problems with bash scripts and sysv init including non deterministic behavior People are running into the same determinism problems with Systemd, so it doesn't appear this is a step forward.
- JdeBP 10y ago
  Just so that you and anyone reading this knows: that list is wrong. * http://jdebp.eu./FGA/systemd-documentation-errata.html#MissingUsrLocalLibSystemd http://jdebp.eu./FGA/systemd-documentation-errata.html#Missi...
  - falcolas 10y ago
    Thank you. I have to be honest though, at this point I just do a find for .service and .socket files anymore. > in the absence of any overriding environment variables Sigh.
    - digi_owl 10y ago
      > > in the absence of any overriding environment variables > Sigh. Almost as if they are deliberately trying to make it hard...

falcolas 10y ago

> And how long did it take you to figure out the same thing with sysv init The answer is, and always was, '/etc/init.d'. Upstart lists its directory ('/etc/init') in the first sentence of its second paragraph. SystemD, on the other hand, requires that you first know that they are now called unit files with a .service extension. Once you have that, you can then attempt to find the man page which finally lists the possible directories they can be stored in as any one of of '/etc/systemd/system/', '/run/systemd/system', '/usr/lib/systemd/system', '~/config/systemd/user/', '/etc/systemd/user/', '/run/systemd/user/', '~/.local/share/systemd/user/', or '/usr/lib/systemd/user'. Unless you're tracking down a port opaquely owned by systemd, in which case you then also need to know that systemd refers to them as 'socket activation' services, and that those files end with .socket instead of .service. > I have had no end of problems with bash scripts and sysv init including non deterministic behavior People are running into the same determinism problems with Systemd, so it doesn't appear this is a step forward.

JdeBP 10y ago
Just so that you and anyone reading this knows: that list is wrong. * http://jdebp.eu./FGA/systemd-documentation-errata.html#MissingUsrLocalLibSystemd http://jdebp.eu./FGA/systemd-documentation-errata.html#Missi...
- falcolas 10y ago
  Thank you. I have to be honest though, at this point I just do a find for .service and .socket files anymore. > in the absence of any overriding environment variables Sigh.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    > > in the absence of any overriding environment variables > Sigh. Almost as if they are deliberately trying to make it hard...