4 ms·

Were these companies actually competing, or just operating separate but likely connected routes? In other words, if you need to go from specific place A to spec

Were these companies actually competing, or just operating separate but likely connected routes? In other words, if you need to go from specific place A to specific place B, what are the odds you could choose which company to use. If location rather than choice dictate which service you use, it is essentially the same as what we have with cable companies. Each company has a monopoly in the zones they operate, and can charge whatever the consumers will bear without worrying about being undercut by competition, because a competitor would need to build significant infrastructure at which point the original company would just lower prices and the competitor would be unable to recover their costs. It makes sense that infrastructure like this should be publicly owned, even if operation is contracted privately.

jrockway 10y ago
Both. Sometimes the routes compete, sometimes they're complementary. In New York, look at the IND Concourse Line and IRT Jerome Avenue Line, they're 2-4 blocks apart for the entire route. Meanwhile, much of the city has no subway service at all. More nefariously, the IND built a totally-unnecessary lower-level platform at 42nd St./8th Ave. to block the IRT's extension of the Flushing line. Indeed, when this line was finally extended a few years ago, cost was added by having to demolish this superfluous station! (Who knew that the city would eventually own both.) In Tokyo, the Tokyo metro Fukutoshin Line basically exists to compete with JR's Yamanote Line for people traveling between Ikebukuro/Shinjuku/Shibuya. Sure, now there's a one-seat-ride between Shinrinkouen and Yokohama... but does anyone do that except to post videos on YouTube? I doubt it. Eliminating a transfer probably wasn't worth the billions of yen spent to build a new subway line. These are the most egregious duplications I can think of, but some are more subtle. I can take the IND or IRT from home to work in the exact same amount of time, depending on whether I want to walk one block in Manhattan or the same distance in Brooklyn. When I lived in Tokyo, we would go out of our way to avoid paying the higher Toei fare when Metro would suffice. (It was called "Eidan" then though!)
- ceras 10y ago
  > In Tokyo, the Tokyo metro Fukutoshin Line basically exists to compete with JR's Yamanote Line for people traveling between Ikebukuro/Shinjuku/Shibuya Wasn't this also important for relieving congestion by increasing capacity along that corridor? That's part of what Manhattan is doing with the new 2nd avenue line, which is a 5min walk away from the existing over-capacity Lexington Avenue line.
  - jrockway 10y ago
    True. True. But a lot of the Tokyo Metro is overcapacity (Hibiya Line especially, IIRC), and they didn't build a line that competes with their own line. Isn't it convenient that they chose to "help" JR relieve their capacity problems, without worrying about their own ;) I stand by my argument that railroads can compete with each other.

jrockway 10y ago

Both. Sometimes the routes compete, sometimes they're complementary. In New York, look at the IND Concourse Line and IRT Jerome Avenue Line, they're 2-4 blocks apart for the entire route. Meanwhile, much of the city has no subway service at all. More nefariously, the IND built a totally-unnecessary lower-level platform at 42nd St./8th Ave. to block the IRT's extension of the Flushing line. Indeed, when this line was finally extended a few years ago, cost was added by having to demolish this superfluous station! (Who knew that the city would eventually own both.) In Tokyo, the Tokyo metro Fukutoshin Line basically exists to compete with JR's Yamanote Line for people traveling between Ikebukuro/Shinjuku/Shibuya. Sure, now there's a one-seat-ride between Shinrinkouen and Yokohama... but does anyone do that except to post videos on YouTube? I doubt it. Eliminating a transfer probably wasn't worth the billions of yen spent to build a new subway line. These are the most egregious duplications I can think of, but some are more subtle. I can take the IND or IRT from home to work in the exact same amount of time, depending on whether I want to walk one block in Manhattan or the same distance in Brooklyn. When I lived in Tokyo, we would go out of our way to avoid paying the higher Toei fare when Metro would suffice. (It was called "Eidan" then though!)

ceras 10y ago
> In Tokyo, the Tokyo metro Fukutoshin Line basically exists to compete with JR's Yamanote Line for people traveling between Ikebukuro/Shinjuku/Shibuya Wasn't this also important for relieving congestion by increasing capacity along that corridor? That's part of what Manhattan is doing with the new 2nd avenue line, which is a 5min walk away from the existing over-capacity Lexington Avenue line.
- jrockway 10y ago
  True. True. But a lot of the Tokyo Metro is overcapacity (Hibiya Line especially, IIRC), and they didn't build a line that competes with their own line. Isn't it convenient that they chose to "help" JR relieve their capacity problems, without worrying about their own ;) I stand by my argument that railroads can compete with each other.