5 ms·

The GPS and mobile data are overthinking it. The routes are known so simply trigger on door open/close (with some logic for denounce/etc) and cycle through. Fo

The GPS and mobile data are overthinking it. The routes are known so simply trigger on door open/close (with some logic for denounce/etc) and cycle through. For maximal accuracy simply have an electronic beacon of any sort broadcasting an ID that corresponds to the stop and you've got it solved. And the entire data set for the route should be able to live offline onboard the bus. Changing bus/numbers routes should include the step for updating route data.

oarsinsync 10y ago
Except that quickly becomes inaccurate if the bus driver decides to re-open the doors for an incoming passenger, or due to traffic conditions, opens the bus doors further from the stop than the beacon reaches. Or skips a stop due to road conditions.
- relate 10y ago
  1. Set a minimum time until next stop can be announced 2. Add a button to skip a stop
  - oarsinsync 10y ago
    And then when the driver accidentally hits the button and needs to go back? Notice how we're now adding more complexity now anyway though...
  - Frenchgeek 10y ago
    RFID like chips on bus stops too, maybe?
    - Natanael_L 10y ago
      While active RFID is possible, other radio tech designed to work as beacons is more likely
  - vidarh 10y ago
    Consider a bus stuck in traffic. It is not unusual, at least in London, for a driver to open/close the door multiple times between stops when traffic moves slowly enough, often with longer intervals in between than there usually would be between stops.
  - ncallaway 10y ago
    > Set a minimum time until next stop can be announced This feels like a dangerous hack that will come back to bite you in any number of unexpected scenarios that probably occur frequently during an average bus driver's day.
- mkagenius 10y ago
  Bluetooth beacon (estimote?) at stops would help.
RealityVoid 10y ago
For an robust system I would use multiple data streams including bust status data/beacons/GPS. I've seen busses with offset stations. 3G is necessary for live ETA, if you want to get fancy. All these complications, in my view, are worth it if you want a system that works 24/7 and serves thousands of people daily. The HW and SW dev costs are acceptable, but it does need a decent team, depending on what the starting point is and the ability of the team members.
PunchTornado 10y ago
changing bus/numbers routes manually is not feasible. in complex networks this happens daily a hundred times.
- aninhumer 10y ago
  I'm confused, are you suggesting there are places where bus routes change hundreds of times a day? I can't imagine many reasons a route would have to change on short notice (accident blocking a road?), and in those situations the announcements not quite being right would not be the end of the world.
  - jeromegv 10y ago
    Buses are often assigned to a route and then leave that route unexpectedly in the middle of the day to service another route (accident, other bus broke down, traffic, subway shutdown etc) , often not starting at the beginning of that route.
    - aninhumer 10y ago
      Oh right, that makes more sense. I guess you could just keep a record of all the different routes in every bus though? And skip to the right spot manually as needed.
    - walshemj 10y ago
      Then the bus changes its route number - certainly in the UK I see the drivers punching in the route details when they take over a bus.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- cpitman 10y ago
  I've worked in transit. This is not only feasible, it is how it is done.
  - 10y ago
madeofpalk 10y ago
> For maximal accuracy simply have an electronic beacon of any sort broadcasting an ID that corresponds to the stop and you've got it solved. Yeah, and now we need to install and manage thousands of beacons in bus stops in pretty hospitable conditions. Of course, GPS isnt perfect either. It tends to fail in CBD areas.
vidarh 10y ago
This has all kind of usability issues (now you're expecting the driver to pay attention to and correct mistakes), while providing less accurate data (buss pulls away from stop, gets stuck in traffic; estimates at next stop are based on the bus having pulled away and average times; customers gets angry) and less ability to do traffic management (e.g. spacing out buses by slowing down later buses slightly) without having drivers guessing and reporting data back. > For maximal accuracy simply have an electronic beacon of any sort broadcasting an ID that corresponds to the stop and you've got it solved. That's not remotely accurate for the reason above. > And the entire data set for the route should be able to live offline onboard the bus. Changing bus/numbers routes should include the step for updating route data. It can. E.g. the old London system used odometers. But that was sufficient only for showing "next stop ..." and for reporting very rough estimates. Today it uses odometers, gps, rate gyros and turn rate sensors to be able to more accurately position the buses along a route, and they still regularly "give up" and take a bus off the schedule when traffic conditions means the uncertainty is too high.

oarsinsync 10y ago

Except that quickly becomes inaccurate if the bus driver decides to re-open the doors for an incoming passenger, or due to traffic conditions, opens the bus doors further from the stop than the beacon reaches. Or skips a stop due to road conditions.

relate 10y ago
1. Set a minimum time until next stop can be announced 2. Add a button to skip a stop
- oarsinsync 10y ago
  And then when the driver accidentally hits the button and needs to go back? Notice how we're now adding more complexity now anyway though...
- Frenchgeek 10y ago
  RFID like chips on bus stops too, maybe?
  - Natanael_L 10y ago
    While active RFID is possible, other radio tech designed to work as beacons is more likely
- vidarh 10y ago
  Consider a bus stuck in traffic. It is not unusual, at least in London, for a driver to open/close the door multiple times between stops when traffic moves slowly enough, often with longer intervals in between than there usually would be between stops.
- ncallaway 10y ago
  > Set a minimum time until next stop can be announced This feels like a dangerous hack that will come back to bite you in any number of unexpected scenarios that probably occur frequently during an average bus driver's day.
mkagenius 10y ago
Bluetooth beacon (estimote?) at stops would help.

RealityVoid 10y ago

For an robust system I would use multiple data streams including bust status data/beacons/GPS. I've seen busses with offset stations. 3G is necessary for live ETA, if you want to get fancy. All these complications, in my view, are worth it if you want a system that works 24/7 and serves thousands of people daily. The HW and SW dev costs are acceptable, but it does need a decent team, depending on what the starting point is and the ability of the team members.

PunchTornado 10y ago

changing bus/numbers routes manually is not feasible. in complex networks this happens daily a hundred times.

aninhumer 10y ago
I'm confused, are you suggesting there are places where bus routes change hundreds of times a day? I can't imagine many reasons a route would have to change on short notice (accident blocking a road?), and in those situations the announcements not quite being right would not be the end of the world.
- jeromegv 10y ago
  Buses are often assigned to a route and then leave that route unexpectedly in the middle of the day to service another route (accident, other bus broke down, traffic, subway shutdown etc) , often not starting at the beginning of that route.
  - aninhumer 10y ago
    Oh right, that makes more sense. I guess you could just keep a record of all the different routes in every bus though? And skip to the right spot manually as needed.
  - walshemj 10y ago
    Then the bus changes its route number - certainly in the UK I see the drivers punching in the route details when they take over a bus.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
cpitman 10y ago
I've worked in transit. This is not only feasible, it is how it is done.
- 10y ago

madeofpalk 10y ago

> For maximal accuracy simply have an electronic beacon of any sort broadcasting an ID that corresponds to the stop and you've got it solved. Yeah, and now we need to install and manage thousands of beacons in bus stops in pretty hospitable conditions. Of course, GPS isnt perfect either. It tends to fail in CBD areas.

vidarh 10y ago

This has all kind of usability issues (now you're expecting the driver to pay attention to and correct mistakes), while providing less accurate data (buss pulls away from stop, gets stuck in traffic; estimates at next stop are based on the bus having pulled away and average times; customers gets angry) and less ability to do traffic management (e.g. spacing out buses by slowing down later buses slightly) without having drivers guessing and reporting data back. > For maximal accuracy simply have an electronic beacon of any sort broadcasting an ID that corresponds to the stop and you've got it solved. That's not remotely accurate for the reason above. > And the entire data set for the route should be able to live offline onboard the bus. Changing bus/numbers routes should include the step for updating route data. It can. E.g. the old London system used odometers. But that was sufficient only for showing "next stop ..." and for reporting very rough estimates. Today it uses odometers, gps, rate gyros and turn rate sensors to be able to more accurately position the buses along a route, and they still regularly "give up" and take a bus off the schedule when traffic conditions means the uncertainty is too high.