5 ms·

This correlates with their long term goals of making the OS a SaaS, with paid services (like making HyperV available) and pay-or-get-ads for the home and pro ve

by Zelmor 10y ago

This correlates with their long term goals of making the OS a SaaS, with paid services (like making HyperV available) and pay-or-get-ads for the home and pro versions. Having access to Enterprise, people would simply upgrade to that to avoid subscription fees. Obviously, I cannot refer to my sources, else people would lose their jobs and more.

cm2187 10y ago
You mean a subscription based model? What will happen when people stop paying, they brick the device? If their idea that what customers are really after is a OS filled with ads, they are running into a wall with both feet on the accelerator.
- tdkl 10y ago
  > What will happen when people stop paying They'll utilize Windows Update.
- KirinDave 10y ago
  I use the tools daily and the number of "invasive ads" is commensurate with what I saw in OSX. And I'd use Linux for my desktop OS if it was at all suited to running on modern laptop hardware with: 1. Good battery life. Within 5% of what the targetted OS can deliver. 2. Good external display support (at least as good as windows, you plug it in and your projector/external monitor/video capture device works). 3. Good support for the common high density displays that laptops bundle now. 4. Without substantial configuration effort and the promise that my computer will NEVER brick its own update mechanism because it can't be bothered to sweep year old kernel images. And having just tried AGAIN (again again again again x10) to get a Linux laptop working on 2 year old hardware *marketed as designed for linux, it failed. I don't really care what excuses everyone offers. These are entirely reasonable requests and for most hardware, no desktop Linux will meet them without radically lowering your standards. So yeah, I have to pay more for a competent experience. Too bad the Linux world refuses to deliver a free one, but I suppose that's because it's lots of effort.
  - cm2187 10y ago
    I completely share your frustration with linux on laptops, I ran into similar problems. And the breadth of distributions makes it very hard to find help without being a linux specialist. Which is also why I don't mind paying for Windows it itself. But I do not want an OS with ads and telemetry. And it is highly ironic that Microsoft is distributing "signature" hardware that was meant to be free from the adware and spyware that the PC makers were installing by default, only for the windows team to embed this adware and spyware in windows 10 itself.
    - yuhong 10y ago
      It is not the same thing. A lot of the telemetry is via SQM for example.
    - KirinDave 10y ago
      > But I do not want an OS with ads and telemetry. I am afraid you and the industry are at an impasse. You have no platform available to you that is both competent and does 0 telemetry. Given the absurd price pressures on software, I don't know how any of us can ship things at scale with competitive cost without extensive telemetry. > windows team to embed this adware and spyware in windows 10 itself. This kind of language is both inflammatory and somewhat inaccurate. Windows 10 and even the Edge browser are _not_ Spyware and drawing a false equivalence here only serves to muddy the discussion. Basic telemetry on use is not spyware. The Windows Store live tile is NOT adware and can be removed from the start menu if you find it's tiny window onto store promotions (something entirely relevant to a store app) to be offensive. Yes, there have been a few inappropriate decisions on MS's part (notably offering overt ads over the free lockscreen art program). These are bad, but have been apologized for and rescinded. They do not constitute an OS that is "Adware and Spyware." Thank you.
      - cm2187 10y ago
        I am sorry, when I make a clean install of Windows 10, it is full of "get office", "try skype", "install Netflix", "use candy crush soda" etc. How is it different from the "try McAffee" that I get on a non signature PC? As for the data collection (enabled by default), I am sorry, this is nothing short of spyware. Quoting the EFF: location data, text input, voice input, touch input, webpages you visit, and telemetry data regarding your general usage of your computer, including which programs you run and for how long.. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/08/windows-10-microsoft-blatantly-disregards-user-choice-and-privacy-deep-dive https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/08/windows-10-microsoft-b... And that's in top of making it more difficult to change the default browser which users have to do manually instead of the browser being able to do it for you. This is really mean. If Microsoft gets offended by their software being called spyware and adware, then they'd better not do it in the first place.
TheRealDunkirk 10y ago
You're suggesting you have inside information that this is, in fact, their roadmap. It wouldn't surprise me. And it makes me all the more willing to pay a premium for hardware which runs macOS, if it would make Apple NOT go down the same roads.
- Zelmor 10y ago
  They will do away with the Windows 10 name in two-three year's time and just call it "Windows", it being their final operating system product. All iterations and patching can be done via their update services. At the same time, the OS will be made free-for-download, not just upgrade, since they have already made the bulk profits from sales. Focus will shift to spreading their base product, the OS, to everyone and live off of services they provide within their ecosystem. All products, enterprise and otherwise, will move towards a SaaS structure, where they will attempt to push pre-made packages onto customers big and small alike. Office 365 was the pilot.
yuhong 10y ago
Mostly in response to declining PC sales right?

by Zelmor 10y ago

cm2187 10y ago

You mean a subscription based model? What will happen when people stop paying, they brick the device? If their idea that what customers are really after is a OS filled with ads, they are running into a wall with both feet on the accelerator.

tdkl 10y ago
> What will happen when people stop paying They'll utilize Windows Update.
KirinDave 10y ago
I use the tools daily and the number of "invasive ads" is commensurate with what I saw in OSX. And I'd use Linux for my desktop OS if it was at all suited to running on modern laptop hardware with: 1. Good battery life. Within 5% of what the targetted OS can deliver. 2. Good external display support (at least as good as windows, you plug it in and your projector/external monitor/video capture device works). 3. Good support for the common high density displays that laptops bundle now. 4. Without substantial configuration effort and the promise that my computer will NEVER brick its own update mechanism because it can't be bothered to sweep year old kernel images. And having just tried AGAIN (again again again again x10) to get a Linux laptop working on 2 year old hardware *marketed as designed for linux, it failed. I don't really care what excuses everyone offers. These are entirely reasonable requests and for most hardware, no desktop Linux will meet them without radically lowering your standards. So yeah, I have to pay more for a competent experience. Too bad the Linux world refuses to deliver a free one, but I suppose that's because it's lots of effort.
- cm2187 10y ago
  I completely share your frustration with linux on laptops, I ran into similar problems. And the breadth of distributions makes it very hard to find help without being a linux specialist. Which is also why I don't mind paying for Windows it itself. But I do not want an OS with ads and telemetry. And it is highly ironic that Microsoft is distributing "signature" hardware that was meant to be free from the adware and spyware that the PC makers were installing by default, only for the windows team to embed this adware and spyware in windows 10 itself.
  - yuhong 10y ago
    It is not the same thing. A lot of the telemetry is via SQM for example.
  - KirinDave 10y ago
    > But I do not want an OS with ads and telemetry. I am afraid you and the industry are at an impasse. You have no platform available to you that is both competent and does 0 telemetry. Given the absurd price pressures on software, I don't know how any of us can ship things at scale with competitive cost without extensive telemetry. > windows team to embed this adware and spyware in windows 10 itself. This kind of language is both inflammatory and somewhat inaccurate. Windows 10 and even the Edge browser are _not_ Spyware and drawing a false equivalence here only serves to muddy the discussion. Basic telemetry on use is not spyware. The Windows Store live tile is NOT adware and can be removed from the start menu if you find it's tiny window onto store promotions (something entirely relevant to a store app) to be offensive. Yes, there have been a few inappropriate decisions on MS's part (notably offering overt ads over the free lockscreen art program). These are bad, but have been apologized for and rescinded. They do not constitute an OS that is "Adware and Spyware." Thank you.
    - cm2187 10y ago
      I am sorry, when I make a clean install of Windows 10, it is full of "get office", "try skype", "install Netflix", "use candy crush soda" etc. How is it different from the "try McAffee" that I get on a non signature PC? As for the data collection (enabled by default), I am sorry, this is nothing short of spyware. Quoting the EFF: location data, text input, voice input, touch input, webpages you visit, and telemetry data regarding your general usage of your computer, including which programs you run and for how long.. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/08/windows-10-microsoft-blatantly-disregards-user-choice-and-privacy-deep-dive https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/08/windows-10-microsoft-b... And that's in top of making it more difficult to change the default browser which users have to do manually instead of the browser being able to do it for you. This is really mean. If Microsoft gets offended by their software being called spyware and adware, then they'd better not do it in the first place.

TheRealDunkirk 10y ago

You're suggesting you have inside information that this is, in fact, their roadmap. It wouldn't surprise me. And it makes me all the more willing to pay a premium for hardware which runs macOS, if it would make Apple NOT go down the same roads.

Zelmor 10y ago
They will do away with the Windows 10 name in two-three year's time and just call it "Windows", it being their final operating system product. All iterations and patching can be done via their update services. At the same time, the OS will be made free-for-download, not just upgrade, since they have already made the bulk profits from sales. Focus will shift to spreading their base product, the OS, to everyone and live off of services they provide within their ecosystem. All products, enterprise and otherwise, will move towards a SaaS structure, where they will attempt to push pre-made packages onto customers big and small alike. Office 365 was the pilot.

yuhong 10y ago

Mostly in response to declining PC sales right?