4 ms·

I wish MS was more clear that 90% of devs will be best served by the pro edition. HyperV is basically indispensable to a dev of most any kind given enough time.

Alupis 10y ago
> HyperV is basically indispensable to a dev of most any kind given enough time. Or any of the free alternatives that do the job just as well (or better) but don't require a special license version to run. VirtualBox and KVM/VirtManager come to mind, both work for free, VirtualBox will run on Windows computers, and both work on Linux machines. There are many others too.
- KirinDave 10y ago
  > VirtualBox and KVM/VirtManager come to mind, both work for free, VirtualBox will run on Windows computers, and both work on Linux machines. There are many others too. I have both and have used both, and while VirtualBox is a servicable product and is free, it does not "work as well" in my experience as HyperV. Notably, even before Docker For Windows Beta, a hand-built Docker HyperV instance was notably faster than the VBoxHeadless variant. I'm not sure why paying money for a good virtualization package is bad. Certainly on the OSX side VMware is a truckload more stable and light years better at supporting any sort of task that has a display requirement.
  - pawadu 10y ago
    Yes, but that applies only to very limited headless machines. As soon as you want to use graphics or peripherals hyper-v will not suffice.
    - my123 10y ago
      Enable the RemoteFX GPU support in the VM then.
    - KirinDave 10y ago
      True, but headless machines are the subject of discussion.
- vacri 10y ago
  Occasionally a Windows update will come down the pipe that kills Virtualbox stone dead, and it's not always fixed (on the VBox side) ASAP. Just a cryptic error in the event viewer, that's all you get.
  - Alupis 10y ago
    This is purely anecdotal, but I've used Virtualbox for years (on host machines of windows xp -> windows 10 and every version in between, plus several linux distros) and never once ran into this issue.
    - vacri 10y ago
      I ran into this problem last week on Win10 when I had to fire up a linux VM to do some troubleshooting for work. Found the answer in the VBox forums, and saw the same thing in the forums a couple of times in previous years. I was lucky in that there were new builds to download (I don't use it often), but the answer for each of the forum threads was "wait". On a tangent, this win10 box is my gaming box, and I haven't changed any of the settings regarding updates - it's just stock win10 stuff. Which is amusing when win10 gives you the "we're rebooting, you can either do it now or in 15 minutes" bit (different to the 4-hour delay option). I've come back from dinner to find the machine freshly rebooted. :)
- pawadu 10y ago
  HyperV and VirtualBox (or VMWare) cannot co-exist on the same machine. So basically, if you want to do windows development you have to give up the alternatives
  - WorldMaker 10y ago
    VirtualBox still runs fine on a Windows machine with HyperV active. (I have a mixture of VMs in both and while I try not to run them side-by-side I don't have problems with either running.)
    - pawadu 10y ago
      Maybe this has been fixed with AU, but previously you had to practially dual-boot windows to use both: http://www.hanselman.com/blog/SwitchEasilyBetweenVirtualBoxAndHyperVWithABCDEditBootEntryInWindows81.aspx http://www.hanselman.com/blog/SwitchEasilyBetweenVirtualBoxA...
      - WorldMaker 10y ago
        I'm currently running Windows 8.1. I've got an ancient XP VM in VirtualBox I need to run sometimes and also use the Hyper-V-based VS Android and Windows mobile emulators and don't have obvious issues running one or the other. I haven't done anything other than installs to get things running.
  - Alupis 10y ago
    > So basically, if you want to do windows development you have to give up the alternatives What? You can run Windows guests on Virtualbox.
jsprogrammer 10y ago
The name gives it away. The pro edition is for professionals.
- hiram112 10y ago
  It absolutely is not. It is for 'consumers' that do not have the clout to refuse the Androidization of their PC. Take a spin through group policy and you'll notice that many of the hated features of Win 10 can not be modified on pro and home.
  - cm2187 10y ago
    That they do that to the home version I can understand. But they treat the pro version as a consumer version, ie with telemetry, adware & co. It has become only a "pro" version in name. I am an individual, I don't have access to Windows Enterprise. It is very weird that Microsoft won't even take my money. If they make pro a spyware/adware filled locked down OS, at least they should make enterprise available, for a small premium, to the customers who wish to opt out.
    - Zelmor 10y ago
      This correlates with their long term goals of making the OS a SaaS, with paid services (like making HyperV available) and pay-or-get-ads for the home and pro versions. Having access to Enterprise, people would simply upgrade to that to avoid subscription fees. Obviously, I cannot refer to my sources, else people would lose their jobs and more.
      - cm2187 10y ago
        You mean a subscription based model? What will happen when people stop paying, they brick the device? If their idea that what customers are really after is a OS filled with ads, they are running into a wall with both feet on the accelerator.
        10y ago

Alupis 10y ago

> HyperV is basically indispensable to a dev of most any kind given enough time. Or any of the free alternatives that do the job just as well (or better) but don't require a special license version to run. VirtualBox and KVM/VirtManager come to mind, both work for free, VirtualBox will run on Windows computers, and both work on Linux machines. There are many others too.

KirinDave 10y ago
> VirtualBox and KVM/VirtManager come to mind, both work for free, VirtualBox will run on Windows computers, and both work on Linux machines. There are many others too. I have both and have used both, and while VirtualBox is a servicable product and is free, it does not "work as well" in my experience as HyperV. Notably, even before Docker For Windows Beta, a hand-built Docker HyperV instance was notably faster than the VBoxHeadless variant. I'm not sure why paying money for a good virtualization package is bad. Certainly on the OSX side VMware is a truckload more stable and light years better at supporting any sort of task that has a display requirement.
- pawadu 10y ago
  Yes, but that applies only to very limited headless machines. As soon as you want to use graphics or peripherals hyper-v will not suffice.
  - my123 10y ago
    Enable the RemoteFX GPU support in the VM then.
  - KirinDave 10y ago
    True, but headless machines are the subject of discussion.
vacri 10y ago
Occasionally a Windows update will come down the pipe that kills Virtualbox stone dead, and it's not always fixed (on the VBox side) ASAP. Just a cryptic error in the event viewer, that's all you get.
- Alupis 10y ago
  This is purely anecdotal, but I've used Virtualbox for years (on host machines of windows xp -> windows 10 and every version in between, plus several linux distros) and never once ran into this issue.
  - vacri 10y ago
    I ran into this problem last week on Win10 when I had to fire up a linux VM to do some troubleshooting for work. Found the answer in the VBox forums, and saw the same thing in the forums a couple of times in previous years. I was lucky in that there were new builds to download (I don't use it often), but the answer for each of the forum threads was "wait". On a tangent, this win10 box is my gaming box, and I haven't changed any of the settings regarding updates - it's just stock win10 stuff. Which is amusing when win10 gives you the "we're rebooting, you can either do it now or in 15 minutes" bit (different to the 4-hour delay option). I've come back from dinner to find the machine freshly rebooted. :)
pawadu 10y ago
HyperV and VirtualBox (or VMWare) cannot co-exist on the same machine. So basically, if you want to do windows development you have to give up the alternatives
- WorldMaker 10y ago
  VirtualBox still runs fine on a Windows machine with HyperV active. (I have a mixture of VMs in both and while I try not to run them side-by-side I don't have problems with either running.)
  - pawadu 10y ago
    Maybe this has been fixed with AU, but previously you had to practially dual-boot windows to use both: http://www.hanselman.com/blog/SwitchEasilyBetweenVirtualBoxAndHyperVWithABCDEditBootEntryInWindows81.aspx http://www.hanselman.com/blog/SwitchEasilyBetweenVirtualBoxA...
    - WorldMaker 10y ago
      I'm currently running Windows 8.1. I've got an ancient XP VM in VirtualBox I need to run sometimes and also use the Hyper-V-based VS Android and Windows mobile emulators and don't have obvious issues running one or the other. I haven't done anything other than installs to get things running.
- Alupis 10y ago
  > So basically, if you want to do windows development you have to give up the alternatives What? You can run Windows guests on Virtualbox.

jsprogrammer 10y ago

The name gives it away. The pro edition is for professionals.

hiram112 10y ago
It absolutely is not. It is for 'consumers' that do not have the clout to refuse the Androidization of their PC. Take a spin through group policy and you'll notice that many of the hated features of Win 10 can not be modified on pro and home.
- cm2187 10y ago
  That they do that to the home version I can understand. But they treat the pro version as a consumer version, ie with telemetry, adware & co. It has become only a "pro" version in name. I am an individual, I don't have access to Windows Enterprise. It is very weird that Microsoft won't even take my money. If they make pro a spyware/adware filled locked down OS, at least they should make enterprise available, for a small premium, to the customers who wish to opt out.
  - Zelmor 10y ago
    This correlates with their long term goals of making the OS a SaaS, with paid services (like making HyperV available) and pay-or-get-ads for the home and pro versions. Having access to Enterprise, people would simply upgrade to that to avoid subscription fees. Obviously, I cannot refer to my sources, else people would lose their jobs and more.
    - cm2187 10y ago
      You mean a subscription based model? What will happen when people stop paying, they brick the device? If their idea that what customers are really after is a OS filled with ads, they are running into a wall with both feet on the accelerator.
      - 10y ago