5 ms·

Germany already had its Pirate Party story and it was a total disaster. 4 years ago they entered a few local parliaments with over 8% of the votes, but in the e

by skrause 10y ago

Germany already had its Pirate Party story and it was a total disaster. 4 years ago they entered a few local parliaments with over 8% of the votes, but in the end the party destroyed itself from the inside. Turns out that if a bunch of nerds form a political party without establishing a good communication structure the whole party ends up looking like a Usenet flamewar. In the last local election in Berlin the Pirate Party had less votes even than a satirical party and the "Animal Protection Party". I hope the Icelandic learned something from that and don't make the same mistakes.

oldmanjay 10y ago
I imagine a group of people whose base commonality is "we want other people's stuff for free" will find that they jumped into something of a moral tarpit on many levels.
- seibelj 10y ago
  There is a difference between "wanting other people's stuff for free" and believing that the length of copyright (life of author plus 120 years), the penalties for stealing content (5 years felony conviction plus $250,000 fine for each movie downloaded), and the techniques content owners use to get violators (mass sending of dubious lawsuits based on IP address then immediately offer to settle, similar to extortion) has made people angry at IP laws.
  - ryanlol 10y ago
    >the penalties for stealing content (5 years felony conviction plus $250,000 fine for each movie downloaded So where exactly do you face such penalties for downloading content?
    - seibelj 10y ago
      It's actually $500k https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_States#Criminal_penalties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_St...
      - ryanlol 10y ago
        And how many people have faced criminal copyright charges for downloading movies in the US? (hint: none)
        seibelj 10y ago
        Uhhhh I forgot to respond to this before now, but hundreds every year? Here is one[0]. Another from the Media Institute shows the number of convictions per year through 2011[1]. I don't even understand your arguments. First you didn't believe the penalties were that harsh, then I showed you, then you didn't think anyone actually went to jail, then I showed you. I guess next you'll say no one has ever been executed by the state for downloading movies, so the laws are fine? [0] https://torrentfreak.com/87-months-in-prison-for-copyright-infringement-fair-sentence-or-utter-madness-130608/ https://torrentfreak.com/87-months-in-prison-for-copyright-i... [1] http://www.mediainstitute.org/IPI/2011/052511.php http://www.mediainstitute.org/IPI/2011/052511.php
        ryanlol 10y ago
        I don't think you understand. There's a big difference between civil and criminal copyright infringement and it's not exactly easy to commit criminal copyright infringement. Downloading movies does not carry any criminal penalties, and the possible civil penalties for downloading are minimal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Copyright_Law_in_the_United_States#Civil_vs._criminal_copyright_infringement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Copyright_Law_in_the_... >https://torrentfreak.com/87-months-in-prison-for-copyright-infringement-fair-sentence-or-utter-madness-130608/ https://torrentfreak.com/87-months-in-prison-for-copyright-i... Are you suggesting that a prison sentence was unreasonable for someone selling stolen software licenses at a massive scale? This isn't some guy downloading the newest episode of "Suits", but a somewhat large commercial operation.
notyourwork 10y ago
You make a really great point. What frustrates me about politics is the focus on how you present something more so than what you stand for. I agree entirely about the train wreck in Germany. They go hand in hand to some extent but at the end of the day what you stand for is what you believe in and that is what we should be supporting.

by skrause 10y ago

oldmanjay 10y ago

I imagine a group of people whose base commonality is "we want other people's stuff for free" will find that they jumped into something of a moral tarpit on many levels.

seibelj 10y ago
There is a difference between "wanting other people's stuff for free" and believing that the length of copyright (life of author plus 120 years), the penalties for stealing content (5 years felony conviction plus $250,000 fine for each movie downloaded), and the techniques content owners use to get violators (mass sending of dubious lawsuits based on IP address then immediately offer to settle, similar to extortion) has made people angry at IP laws.
- ryanlol 10y ago
  >the penalties for stealing content (5 years felony conviction plus $250,000 fine for each movie downloaded So where exactly do you face such penalties for downloading content?
  - seibelj 10y ago
    It's actually $500k https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_States#Criminal_penalties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_St...
    - ryanlol 10y ago
      And how many people have faced criminal copyright charges for downloading movies in the US? (hint: none)
      - seibelj 10y ago
        Uhhhh I forgot to respond to this before now, but hundreds every year? Here is one[0]. Another from the Media Institute shows the number of convictions per year through 2011[1]. I don't even understand your arguments. First you didn't believe the penalties were that harsh, then I showed you, then you didn't think anyone actually went to jail, then I showed you. I guess next you'll say no one has ever been executed by the state for downloading movies, so the laws are fine? [0] https://torrentfreak.com/87-months-in-prison-for-copyright-infringement-fair-sentence-or-utter-madness-130608/ https://torrentfreak.com/87-months-in-prison-for-copyright-i... [1] http://www.mediainstitute.org/IPI/2011/052511.php http://www.mediainstitute.org/IPI/2011/052511.php
        ryanlol 10y ago
        I don't think you understand. There's a big difference between civil and criminal copyright infringement and it's not exactly easy to commit criminal copyright infringement. Downloading movies does not carry any criminal penalties, and the possible civil penalties for downloading are minimal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Copyright_Law_in_the_United_States#Civil_vs._criminal_copyright_infringement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Copyright_Law_in_the_... >https://torrentfreak.com/87-months-in-prison-for-copyright-infringement-fair-sentence-or-utter-madness-130608/ https://torrentfreak.com/87-months-in-prison-for-copyright-i... Are you suggesting that a prison sentence was unreasonable for someone selling stolen software licenses at a massive scale? This isn't some guy downloading the newest episode of "Suits", but a somewhat large commercial operation.

notyourwork 10y ago

You make a really great point. What frustrates me about politics is the focus on how you present something more so than what you stand for. I agree entirely about the train wreck in Germany. They go hand in hand to some extent but at the end of the day what you stand for is what you believe in and that is what we should be supporting.