5 ms·

It's the internet. I'm not writing to change minds, I'm writing pretty much to the audience that already agrees with me. Nobody thinks we're going to have a pro

by zajd 10y ago

It's the internet. I'm not writing to change minds, I'm writing pretty much to the audience that already agrees with me. Nobody thinks we're going to have a productive discussion about race in the HN comments, way better to just point out the hypocrisy and move on. Truth of the matter is the comments that are most relevant get floated to the top and if someone's gonna say some ignorant shit they ought to be called out on it. I don't mind being downvoted, I honestly find it amusing that if you say something wrong, people will respond. Say something wrong they don't like, people attack you. Say something right that people don't like? They downvote silently. If it makes people uncomfortable to be told their racist for calling 100 years ago a golden age... maybe they should be uncomfortable? TLDR I'll save my effort trying change hearts and minds for when it's worth it.

beowulf_cluster 10y ago
> If it makes people uncomfortable to be told their [sic] racist for calling 100 years ago a golden age... maybe they should be uncomfortable? Glossing over the faulty logic, is your entire motive for posting here is to distress the top-level commenter? You say you're not here to sway opinions. So you're just here to troll for the sake of trolling? I'll admit this is refreshingly candid, but could you just refrain from posting in the first place?
- zajd 10y ago
  Again, not trolling, just giving a place for the educated among us to click a button and say "hey, this stupid racist shit doesn't represent the HN community" Quite frankly the idea that we should treat all ideas with civility and respect doesn't really cut it in reality.
  - beowulf_cluster 10y ago
    Whatever racism you think you're seeing is only in your head. Top level commenter didn't call 1914 a "golden age"; they were merely lamenting some of the freedoms we lost a century ago.
  - zo1 10y ago
    >"Again, not trolling, just giving a place for the educated among us to click a button and say "hey, this stupid racist shit doesn't represent the HN community"" Ironically, that last part is probably a good part of why you are being down voted.
    - zajd 10y ago
      I honestly have no problems with it. I know these are controversial issues today and taking the stance of "we shouldn't have to put up with racist rhetoric in 2016 in the developed world" is not going to be a popular one, especially when you use sarcasm to convey it. There are assuredly people who will say "it's 2016, I should be able to have my own opinions, whatever they are, and be treated as equal to others" I disagree.
      - ori_b 10y ago
        I see that the word "racism" has ceased to have meaning. "I wish there was less passport control and easier migration." "RACIST!"
        zajd 10y ago
        When a white person laments about how much "we've given up" since 1910 it is a racist action. Sorry the truth hurts. It's similar to those that look back on the 50s as a golden age in America. Sure, it's golden if you're a white male. We haven't given up shit since 1910, progress has been unimaginable and it's actually EASIER to travel internationally now than it was then. So yeah, if you're going to pretend like 1910 was better for this shit in some way, it's only going to be for a very select group of people.
        ori_b 10y ago
        Yep. Racism has become a meaningless accusation, tossed around so lightly that I can conclude nothing when I hear it. Unfortunately, that doesn't leave me a good term for the people like the ones that murdered most of my grandmother's family because of their race.
  - rustynails 10y ago
    I consider Hacker News one of the few open minded forums today. Where a comment adds value, it's sometimes up voted. Your original comment didn't add value to the discussion and I doubt its accuracy. Take for example, during early conflicts (around 0AD), people of all social standings were known to move from city to city. The Mongols (although much later, 1200s) used this mass migration as a technique to weaken economies. So, travel is not anything like what you described. The world's history is full of far more diversity than we give credit for.
    - zajd 10y ago
      The post I was responding too was saying literally nothing about the mongols using mass migration as a technique to weaken economies. It's irrelevant to the point I was making. It doesn't surprise me that most of the people attacking the way I'm speaking also have a backdoor opinion about the content as well.
  - wtbob 10y ago
    What the heck is stupid or racist about the quote I posted? Here it is, again: 'Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police.' There's nothing in there about race! Not a single thing. > Quite frankly the idea that we should treat all ideas with civility and respect doesn't really cut it in reality. Well, since you started the incivility: you're a complete and utter dingbat. Not every issue is about race. This issue isn't about race.
    - zajd 10y ago
      > Well, since you started the incivility: you're a complete and utter dingbat. Not every issue is about race. This issue isn't about race. If you think you can have a discussion about immigration in 2016 using a "sensible, law-abiding Englishman in 1914" as your "look at what we've lost"... I just don't know what to tell you. The lack of you getting why there's a huge racial component to posting something like that... well, it's kind of beyond me. Context matters, there's no reason to pretend like we've lost anything since 1914. The only people who have lost anything are the most privileged of people on this planet. edit. Really not surprisingly looking at your post history "people's wages should be dictated by the market" haha why don't you just make your username "PrivilegeOwns69"
      - wtbob 10y ago
        I think that you're literally insane. There's no point trying to reason with an irrational man, and so … I'm done.
        zajd 10y ago
        Don't let your bad opinions hit you on the way out.
turar 10y ago
Do you have any references to support your claim that before 1914 travel was more restricted for someone of similar means from Asia, Africa, or Latin America?

by zajd 10y ago

beowulf_cluster 10y ago

> If it makes people uncomfortable to be told their [sic] racist for calling 100 years ago a golden age... maybe they should be uncomfortable? Glossing over the faulty logic, is your entire motive for posting here is to distress the top-level commenter? You say you're not here to sway opinions. So you're just here to troll for the sake of trolling? I'll admit this is refreshingly candid, but could you just refrain from posting in the first place?

zajd 10y ago
Again, not trolling, just giving a place for the educated among us to click a button and say "hey, this stupid racist shit doesn't represent the HN community" Quite frankly the idea that we should treat all ideas with civility and respect doesn't really cut it in reality.
- beowulf_cluster 10y ago
  Whatever racism you think you're seeing is only in your head. Top level commenter didn't call 1914 a "golden age"; they were merely lamenting some of the freedoms we lost a century ago.
- zo1 10y ago
  >"Again, not trolling, just giving a place for the educated among us to click a button and say "hey, this stupid racist shit doesn't represent the HN community"" Ironically, that last part is probably a good part of why you are being down voted.
  - zajd 10y ago
    I honestly have no problems with it. I know these are controversial issues today and taking the stance of "we shouldn't have to put up with racist rhetoric in 2016 in the developed world" is not going to be a popular one, especially when you use sarcasm to convey it. There are assuredly people who will say "it's 2016, I should be able to have my own opinions, whatever they are, and be treated as equal to others" I disagree.
    - ori_b 10y ago
      I see that the word "racism" has ceased to have meaning. "I wish there was less passport control and easier migration." "RACIST!"
      - zajd 10y ago
        When a white person laments about how much "we've given up" since 1910 it is a racist action. Sorry the truth hurts. It's similar to those that look back on the 50s as a golden age in America. Sure, it's golden if you're a white male. We haven't given up shit since 1910, progress has been unimaginable and it's actually EASIER to travel internationally now than it was then. So yeah, if you're going to pretend like 1910 was better for this shit in some way, it's only going to be for a very select group of people.
        ori_b 10y ago
        Yep. Racism has become a meaningless accusation, tossed around so lightly that I can conclude nothing when I hear it. Unfortunately, that doesn't leave me a good term for the people like the ones that murdered most of my grandmother's family because of their race.
- rustynails 10y ago
  I consider Hacker News one of the few open minded forums today. Where a comment adds value, it's sometimes up voted. Your original comment didn't add value to the discussion and I doubt its accuracy. Take for example, during early conflicts (around 0AD), people of all social standings were known to move from city to city. The Mongols (although much later, 1200s) used this mass migration as a technique to weaken economies. So, travel is not anything like what you described. The world's history is full of far more diversity than we give credit for.
  - zajd 10y ago
    The post I was responding too was saying literally nothing about the mongols using mass migration as a technique to weaken economies. It's irrelevant to the point I was making. It doesn't surprise me that most of the people attacking the way I'm speaking also have a backdoor opinion about the content as well.
- wtbob 10y ago
  What the heck is stupid or racist about the quote I posted? Here it is, again: 'Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police.' There's nothing in there about race! Not a single thing. > Quite frankly the idea that we should treat all ideas with civility and respect doesn't really cut it in reality. Well, since you started the incivility: you're a complete and utter dingbat. Not every issue is about race. This issue isn't about race.
  - zajd 10y ago
    > Well, since you started the incivility: you're a complete and utter dingbat. Not every issue is about race. This issue isn't about race. If you think you can have a discussion about immigration in 2016 using a "sensible, law-abiding Englishman in 1914" as your "look at what we've lost"... I just don't know what to tell you. The lack of you getting why there's a huge racial component to posting something like that... well, it's kind of beyond me. Context matters, there's no reason to pretend like we've lost anything since 1914. The only people who have lost anything are the most privileged of people on this planet. edit. Really not surprisingly looking at your post history "people's wages should be dictated by the market" haha why don't you just make your username "PrivilegeOwns69"
    - wtbob 10y ago
      I think that you're literally insane. There's no point trying to reason with an irrational man, and so … I'm done.
      - zajd 10y ago
        Don't let your bad opinions hit you on the way out.

turar 10y ago

Do you have any references to support your claim that before 1914 travel was more restricted for someone of similar means from Asia, Africa, or Latin America?