5 ms·

Please stop using the word 'racist' where it does not apply. The freedom of movement within the EU is definitely not based on race, but on the citizenship of an

by sheepz 10y ago

Please stop using the word 'racist' where it does not apply. The freedom of movement within the EU is definitely not based on race, but on the citizenship of any of the Schengen Area countries. "Xenophobic" is a much better term here. Furthermore, where does it say that the freedom of movement is due to some ideology which considers all nationalities to be equal, rather than just being a policy to improve the welfare and trade between EU members?

J-dawg 10y ago
You're right, I don't think EU freedom of movement is based on ideology. But it was definitely used as an ideological argument by both sides during the Brexit debate.
AnthonyMouse 10y ago
> "Xenophobic" is a much better term here. That isn't really right either. Suppose it was known that if you allowed it, millions of people with a different ideology than you would choose to become citizens of your country, and moreover that they would then enact policies you don't agree with. Typically this argument comes from the right because the currently-disallowed immigrants are low income and would favor leftist policies, but imagine the immigrants are from conservative countries and would vote to e.g. prohibit women from traveling without being accompanied by a male relative. Is not wanting that really "xenophobic"? There is a difference between hating or fearing someone and just not wanting them to make your decisions for you.
MarkMc 10y ago
> The freedom of movement within the EU is definitely not based on race, but on the citizenship of any of the Schengen Area countries. That's true, but can't it still be considered racist? It may not be direct, intentional racism, but the net result of UK policy is that white people can enter the UK much easier than black or brown people. If I require that my employees be at least 6 feet tall, isn't that a sexist hiring policy?
- AnthonyMouse 10y ago
  > If I require that my employees be at least 6 feet tall, is that a sexist hiring policy? Do people who are at least 6 feet tall make better employees? If you require loan applicants to have income sufficient to make the loan payments, and that is true of more white applicants than black applicants, is that a racist policy?
  - zo1 10y ago
    >"Do people who are at least 6 feet tall make better employees?" Side note: Not sure about better, but definitely get paid more according to some studies.
  - MarkMc 10y ago
    That's a great point. I was thinking of a job where height is not an advantage, but perhaps the better analogy is to a job where height is an advantage and so the policy is not sexist/racist.
  - NetStrikeForce 10y ago
    It would be racist to assume a black person might not have insufficient income, just because he's black and someone arbitrarily made an income statistic based in race. You could work that same data to group people by age, gender, political bias, shoe size, arm length, eye color, favourite sport, etc and discriminate against many, many things :-) but actually you should only look at the income and decide on that.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

by sheepz 10y ago

J-dawg 10y ago

You're right, I don't think EU freedom of movement is based on ideology. But it was definitely used as an ideological argument by both sides during the Brexit debate.

AnthonyMouse 10y ago

> "Xenophobic" is a much better term here. That isn't really right either. Suppose it was known that if you allowed it, millions of people with a different ideology than you would choose to become citizens of your country, and moreover that they would then enact policies you don't agree with. Typically this argument comes from the right because the currently-disallowed immigrants are low income and would favor leftist policies, but imagine the immigrants are from conservative countries and would vote to e.g. prohibit women from traveling without being accompanied by a male relative. Is not wanting that really "xenophobic"? There is a difference between hating or fearing someone and just not wanting them to make your decisions for you.

MarkMc 10y ago

> The freedom of movement within the EU is definitely not based on race, but on the citizenship of any of the Schengen Area countries. That's true, but can't it still be considered racist? It may not be direct, intentional racism, but the net result of UK policy is that white people can enter the UK much easier than black or brown people. If I require that my employees be at least 6 feet tall, isn't that a sexist hiring policy?

AnthonyMouse 10y ago
> If I require that my employees be at least 6 feet tall, is that a sexist hiring policy? Do people who are at least 6 feet tall make better employees? If you require loan applicants to have income sufficient to make the loan payments, and that is true of more white applicants than black applicants, is that a racist policy?
- zo1 10y ago
  >"Do people who are at least 6 feet tall make better employees?" Side note: Not sure about better, but definitely get paid more according to some studies.
- MarkMc 10y ago
  That's a great point. I was thinking of a job where height is not an advantage, but perhaps the better analogy is to a job where height is an advantage and so the policy is not sexist/racist.
- NetStrikeForce 10y ago
  It would be racist to assume a black person might not have insufficient income, just because he's black and someone arbitrarily made an income statistic based in race. You could work that same data to group people by age, gender, political bias, shoe size, arm length, eye color, favourite sport, etc and discriminate against many, many things :-) but actually you should only look at the income and decide on that.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]