4 ms·

Author here. More than happy to spend the next few hours answering any questions if the admins find that appropriate. I will do my best to cite evidence/researc

Author here. More than happy to spend the next few hours answering any questions if the admins find that appropriate. I will do my best to cite evidence/research for my responses.

gaius 10y ago
I expect dang will be along if it gets out if hand, but its quite normal here to do that :-)
finkin1 10y ago
I've seen some studies that say the number of reps you do doesn't matter. Can you comment on this? Here's a link to a study: http://jap.physiology.org/content/early/2016/05/09/japplphysiol.00154.2016 http://jap.physiology.org/content/early/2016/05/09/japplphys... Also, I've never heard of muscles shrinking due to being overworked. Can you elaborate on how this happens?
- julianshapiro 10y ago
  #1: Reps. When working out for muscle size (as opposed to strength), it's optimal to use a weight that’s light enough to do a set of at least 8 reps with but heavy enough that you can't easily do more than 10 reps [1, 2]. This range of 8 to 10 reps means it's fine if you stop at 8, 9, or 10 reps in any set. Go as high as you can while stopping one rep short of the maximum you feel you could do. Stopping one rep short of exhaustion is an important technique: It doesn’t decrease your rate of gains and it increases your recovery time between sets so that you can complete all your reps (study, study, study) [3, 4]. #2: Shrinking from overworking is surprisingly a real thing. The science is unclear as to how exactly muscle mass responds to resistance exercise, so my answer would be made up if I gave you one. What I can tell you is that "being overworked" is the result of lifting too heavy for too many total reps. This might seem impossible since your body should be unable to continue lifting past a natural point of exhaustion, but if you use machine exercises (especially a pulley machine), it's easy to cause a disproportionate amount of stress to your muscle relative to the incrementing heaviness trajectory you were lifting for free weights. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7873571_Muscular_adaptations_in_response_to_three_different_resistance-training_regimens_Specificity_of_repetition_maximum_training_zones https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7873571_Muscular_ad... [2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23252049_Changes_in_muscle_size_and_MHC_composition_in_response_to_resistance_exercise_with_heavy_and_light_loading_intensity https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23252049_Changes_in... [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4731492/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4731492/ [4] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21986694 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21986694
  - Y201K 10y ago
    Recent research has shown that progressing with 8-12 reps is not any more optimal for hypertrophy than progressing with 20-30 reps (what people would normally think of as developing "muscular endurance"). The difference in practicing 8-12 reps is increasing strength as well, i.e., participants doing 20-30 reps didn't see significant increases in their 1RMs (despite muscle growth) while those doing 8-12 reps did.
- dragandj 10y ago
  I've heard of it lots of times. Practically every forced labor ever had this effect. Work destroys muscle. Nutrition and rest make them recover (and grow in the process). The fiber can be overworked beyond repair.
- jacques_chester 10y ago
  > I've seen some studies that say the number of reps you do doesn't matter. For hypertrophy, past a minimal amount of stress, it increasingly seems that it doesn't matter[0]. For strength it matters. [0] http://strengtheory.com/hypertrophy-range-fact-fiction/ http://strengtheory.com/hypertrophy-range-fact-fiction/
- jdhopeunique 10y ago
  When you look at one of the figures in the linked paper, a 1RM test is performed every 3 weeks. So some heavy lifting with a reduced rep range is done. Also the study uses young men who have been strength training at least 2 years, averaging around 4 years. Exercises were mostly machine guided except the bench press: "inclined leg press with seated row (superset 1), barbell bench press with cable hamstring curl (superset 2) and front planks (set 3) and Tuesday/Friday: machine- guided shoulder press with bicep curls (superset 1), triceps extension with wide grip pull downs (superset 2) and machine-guided knee extension (set 3). " Both the low rep and high rep group did these supersets. It would seem like making the low rep group do supersets(extra exercises between the sets) would defeat the purpose of calling it low rep. It may have hampered the low rep groups gains. From the link you supplied: "Though there is no apparent advantage of lifting with different loads on changes in muscle mass, there is undoubtedly a neuromuscular advantage to lifting heavier loads if the primary outcome is performing a 1RM test (28). Conversely, it appears that periodic practice of the chosen strength outcome (e.g. 1RM) is effective at eliminating the majority of any post-training difference. " and: "In conjunction with previous data (28), it appears that if 1RM strength is the primary goal, performing the to-be-tested exercise with heavier loads, either consistently and/or periodically, may be required for optimal improvement." So if you want to develop maximum strength(at the reduced rep range), you have to periodically practice in that rep range if only for the neuromuscular advantage. In this case, at least a 1RM every three weeks for the men in this study.

Author here. More than happy to spend the next few hours answering any questions if the admins find that appropriate. I will do my best to cite evidence/research for my responses.

gaius 10y ago

I expect dang will be along if it gets out if hand, but its quite normal here to do that :-)

finkin1 10y ago

I've seen some studies that say the number of reps you do doesn't matter. Can you comment on this? Here's a link to a study: http://jap.physiology.org/content/early/2016/05/09/japplphysiol.00154.2016 http://jap.physiology.org/content/early/2016/05/09/japplphys... Also, I've never heard of muscles shrinking due to being overworked. Can you elaborate on how this happens?

julianshapiro 10y ago
#1: Reps. When working out for muscle size (as opposed to strength), it's optimal to use a weight that’s light enough to do a set of at least 8 reps with but heavy enough that you can't easily do more than 10 reps [1, 2]. This range of 8 to 10 reps means it's fine if you stop at 8, 9, or 10 reps in any set. Go as high as you can while stopping one rep short of the maximum you feel you could do. Stopping one rep short of exhaustion is an important technique: It doesn’t decrease your rate of gains and it increases your recovery time between sets so that you can complete all your reps (study, study, study) [3, 4]. #2: Shrinking from overworking is surprisingly a real thing. The science is unclear as to how exactly muscle mass responds to resistance exercise, so my answer would be made up if I gave you one. What I can tell you is that "being overworked" is the result of lifting too heavy for too many total reps. This might seem impossible since your body should be unable to continue lifting past a natural point of exhaustion, but if you use machine exercises (especially a pulley machine), it's easy to cause a disproportionate amount of stress to your muscle relative to the incrementing heaviness trajectory you were lifting for free weights. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7873571_Muscular_adaptations_in_response_to_three_different_resistance-training_regimens_Specificity_of_repetition_maximum_training_zones https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7873571_Muscular_ad... [2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23252049_Changes_in_muscle_size_and_MHC_composition_in_response_to_resistance_exercise_with_heavy_and_light_loading_intensity https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23252049_Changes_in... [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4731492/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4731492/ [4] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21986694 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21986694
- Y201K 10y ago
  Recent research has shown that progressing with 8-12 reps is not any more optimal for hypertrophy than progressing with 20-30 reps (what people would normally think of as developing "muscular endurance"). The difference in practicing 8-12 reps is increasing strength as well, i.e., participants doing 20-30 reps didn't see significant increases in their 1RMs (despite muscle growth) while those doing 8-12 reps did.
dragandj 10y ago
I've heard of it lots of times. Practically every forced labor ever had this effect. Work destroys muscle. Nutrition and rest make them recover (and grow in the process). The fiber can be overworked beyond repair.
jacques_chester 10y ago
> I've seen some studies that say the number of reps you do doesn't matter. For hypertrophy, past a minimal amount of stress, it increasingly seems that it doesn't matter[0]. For strength it matters. [0] http://strengtheory.com/hypertrophy-range-fact-fiction/ http://strengtheory.com/hypertrophy-range-fact-fiction/
jdhopeunique 10y ago
When you look at one of the figures in the linked paper, a 1RM test is performed every 3 weeks. So some heavy lifting with a reduced rep range is done. Also the study uses young men who have been strength training at least 2 years, averaging around 4 years. Exercises were mostly machine guided except the bench press: "inclined leg press with seated row (superset 1), barbell bench press with cable hamstring curl (superset 2) and front planks (set 3) and Tuesday/Friday: machine- guided shoulder press with bicep curls (superset 1), triceps extension with wide grip pull downs (superset 2) and machine-guided knee extension (set 3). " Both the low rep and high rep group did these supersets. It would seem like making the low rep group do supersets(extra exercises between the sets) would defeat the purpose of calling it low rep. It may have hampered the low rep groups gains. From the link you supplied: "Though there is no apparent advantage of lifting with different loads on changes in muscle mass, there is undoubtedly a neuromuscular advantage to lifting heavier loads if the primary outcome is performing a 1RM test (28). Conversely, it appears that periodic practice of the chosen strength outcome (e.g. 1RM) is effective at eliminating the majority of any post-training difference. " and: "In conjunction with previous data (28), it appears that if 1RM strength is the primary goal, performing the to-be-tested exercise with heavier loads, either consistently and/or periodically, may be required for optimal improvement." So if you want to develop maximum strength(at the reduced rep range), you have to periodically practice in that rep range if only for the neuromuscular advantage. In this case, at least a 1RM every three weeks for the men in this study.