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That's why I'm leaning more and more towards the idea that paying taxes is immoral and wrong in our current system. And that is because a good chunk of the tax

That's why I'm leaning more and more towards the idea that paying taxes is immoral and wrong in our current system. And that is because a good chunk of the taxes we pay go towards arming young people and sending them to kill other young people - military/war/defence. Another chunk goes towards arming your own people against your own people, thus making dissent and protest hard and dangerous. And another chunk goes towards maintaining big and powerful institutions, like the IRS, threatening us with violence if we don't pay up. Centralised taxation systems should be replaced with citizen crowdfunding, in which everyone can choose where his tax money goes. I'm curious if we'd still be spending as much on police and military if we could choose how we spend our taxes.

nilved 10y ago
Unfortunately, taxes are difficult to avoid. For that reason, disrupt or damage at least as much as you contribute so it balances out.
- biofox 10y ago
  That will only lead to more tax money being funnelled into law enforcement instead of public services.
  - nilved 10y ago
    Then step up your disruption?
awinder 10y ago
We probably wouldn't be paying so much towards the military, but god only knows what idiocy would be receiving the money instead. The whims of the people would probably deliver super-unstable funding, making it confusing as to what programs really were effective and which ones just became scapegoats. Hard to say if that system would be more or less wasteful, especially with the low bar of what's currently happening. Honestly, there's a leadership gap right now, but I'm not convinced that that means leadership as an institution is dead. We need good leadership that people can respect, which does it's job, and is ultimately accountable without endless redirection and blame for "the other guy being the bad one"
pdkl95 10y ago
There are many parts of government that I disagree with, including many that I consider immoral. That's why it's important to participate in the political process. Government and law can be changed; it's a slow process and it requires a lot of work, but it's possible. Picking and choosing where your taxes go a terrible idea, because government isn't à la carte[1]. Everybody has their own opinion on what they don't want to pay for, such as the religious fanatics that don't want to cover certain medical items (e.g. some types of birth control). The "market" is not a law of nature that fixes everything, so you're really advocating for a failed government where nothing is properly funded. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSQCH1qyIDo#t=170 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSQCH1qyIDo#t=170
- humanrebar 10y ago
  > Government and law can be changed; it's a slow process and it requires a lot of work, but it's possible. We embrace diversity in culture, why not diversity in governance? People are exploring ideas like 'stop paying taxes' because there are no other options available to them except civil disobedience. We can't just move to another city or another state and get a governance we can endorse in good conscience.
  - pdkl95 10y ago
    > We embrace diversity in culture, why not diversity in governance? When was the last time you participated in your local city council? We do embrace diversity in government. Local government is much easier to change. > People are exploring ideas like 'stop paying taxes' Well, have fun when they throw you in jail for failure to pay. That isn't a new idea (it's been tried longer than the USA has existed), and it always ends badly. It's equivalent to advocating for the government to fail. If that is what you want, you should say it directly. > no other options available > We can't just move to another city First, sometimes you can. It's a solution used by many people in the past. Second, why do you think this is the only option? Did you spend time trying to change local government? Did you run for office? > endorse in good conscience So you support every type of religious fanatic that hates some aspect of government? And the people that want to disband the armed forces? And the anarchists that want to unfund the entire government?

nilved 10y ago

Unfortunately, taxes are difficult to avoid. For that reason, disrupt or damage at least as much as you contribute so it balances out.

biofox 10y ago
That will only lead to more tax money being funnelled into law enforcement instead of public services.
- nilved 10y ago
  Then step up your disruption?

awinder 10y ago

We probably wouldn't be paying so much towards the military, but god only knows what idiocy would be receiving the money instead. The whims of the people would probably deliver super-unstable funding, making it confusing as to what programs really were effective and which ones just became scapegoats. Hard to say if that system would be more or less wasteful, especially with the low bar of what's currently happening. Honestly, there's a leadership gap right now, but I'm not convinced that that means leadership as an institution is dead. We need good leadership that people can respect, which does it's job, and is ultimately accountable without endless redirection and blame for "the other guy being the bad one"

pdkl95 10y ago

There are many parts of government that I disagree with, including many that I consider immoral. That's why it's important to participate in the political process. Government and law can be changed; it's a slow process and it requires a lot of work, but it's possible. Picking and choosing where your taxes go a terrible idea, because government isn't à la carte[1]. Everybody has their own opinion on what they don't want to pay for, such as the religious fanatics that don't want to cover certain medical items (e.g. some types of birth control). The "market" is not a law of nature that fixes everything, so you're really advocating for a failed government where nothing is properly funded. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSQCH1qyIDo#t=170 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSQCH1qyIDo#t=170

humanrebar 10y ago
> Government and law can be changed; it's a slow process and it requires a lot of work, but it's possible. We embrace diversity in culture, why not diversity in governance? People are exploring ideas like 'stop paying taxes' because there are no other options available to them except civil disobedience. We can't just move to another city or another state and get a governance we can endorse in good conscience.
- pdkl95 10y ago
  > We embrace diversity in culture, why not diversity in governance? When was the last time you participated in your local city council? We do embrace diversity in government. Local government is much easier to change. > People are exploring ideas like 'stop paying taxes' Well, have fun when they throw you in jail for failure to pay. That isn't a new idea (it's been tried longer than the USA has existed), and it always ends badly. It's equivalent to advocating for the government to fail. If that is what you want, you should say it directly. > no other options available > We can't just move to another city First, sometimes you can. It's a solution used by many people in the past. Second, why do you think this is the only option? Did you spend time trying to change local government? Did you run for office? > endorse in good conscience So you support every type of religious fanatic that hates some aspect of government? And the people that want to disband the armed forces? And the anarchists that want to unfund the entire government?