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Not to mention that Firefly's cancellation has posthumously added to its notoriety. Nearly every Firefly mention is in relation to its cancellation. Would it

Not to mention that Firefly's cancellation has posthumously added to its notoriety. Nearly every Firefly mention is in relation to its cancellation. Would it be as popular if it hadn't been cancelled? I really like Firefly, but the cancellation meant they didn't have the opportunity to fuck it up. Every other Whedon series has had poor seasons.

RangerScience 10y ago
I suspect that any boost gained by early cancellation would also have been gained by more episodes, and time for word of mouth to popularize it... unless Fox pulled more slow death dickery. I can't really speak to Buffy and Angel, but with regards to Firefly and Dollhouse... The indication is that Whedon wouldn't so much fuck it up, but requirements by Fox would force him to fuck it up. Compare "Train Job" to the original first episode of Firefly. Compare early episodes of Dollhouse to later ones, particularly the encore episode.
- bostik 10y ago
  Dollhouse could have been really good. The idea of using the Big Red Reset Button as a continuous plot element, and telling the arc story through seepage across resets was a brilliant way of giving the finger to almost every other series. And it turned into a young adults' barbie show.
  - jandrese 10y ago
    Dollhouse was a misfire IMHO. I watched both seasons on Netflix and it never really found a groove. I was really annoyed that they more or less sidestepped the obvious ethical and moral issues and instead ended the show with outright supervilliany. It was just so dumb by the end that I felt kind of embarrassed to keep watching.
    - pmiller2 10y ago
      That's what happens when the network forces you to cram 5 years worth of story into 1 year. :/
- flycaliguy 10y ago
  That feels a bit like a cop-out to me. Part of the job of a television creative is effectively working inside of your network. Although it's better today, with Netflix and the free reign a lot of producers get, I think there is an art of show business maneuvering that shaped so much TV and kind of added to it's character. The classic "medium with a limitation" theory.
IgorPartola 10y ago
While I think Firefly had one or two more good seasons in it, I do support your argument. There are so many examples of shows having a strong start and then screwing up in a later season, making the whole series terrible. I think Heroes was the worst example of this: brilliant first season, complete garbage after. Glee is another example. I would have hated to see Firefly do this.
- JshWright 10y ago
  Heros fell apart during the writers strike. Personally I think shows should get three seasons by default, and should need a _really_ compelling reason to go beyond that.
kazagistar 10y ago
Actually, I think this is consistent. 13-26 or so episodes is a pretty good length. Beyond that, ideas get stale, characters get repetitive, plots get either formulaic, or too convoluted to ever resolve, and a show generally starts to tilt downward. I wish there were more shows that just were OK with planning an ending. I like stories with endings. Just know your limits, don't try to make a show that can go on for a million seasons, end it when its still good, and then use the goodwill garnered from making a masterpiece to build the next creative thing. I'm not sure why this model seems to be more successful in, say, Anime as opposed to western TV. Budget, maybe?
- DanBC 10y ago
  > I'm not sure why this model seems to be more successful in, say, Anime as opposed to western TV. Budget, maybe? It's mostly a US thing. The UK is fine with making shows that have short seasons and that only last two or three seasons.
  - enraged_camel 10y ago
    Actually, I think the UK is the exception in this regard. Most other countries that shoot their own local TV shows have 6-9 month seasons. Brazil, India, China, Turkey.. etc. Furthermore I'm not convinced UK's shorter season format is a good thing. I actually think it's a symptom of much smaller budgets.
    - DanBC 10y ago
      Yes! You made me realise that I was applying my own limited view of tv shows (what I see on English TV) and appying that to the whole world.
- jandrese 10y ago
  I think they're starting to get it. Breaking Bad fully executed its ending. Game of Thrones announced their end years in advance. TV producers are finally starting to come on board with the idea of stopping a show even though it's popular.

RangerScience 10y ago

I suspect that any boost gained by early cancellation would also have been gained by more episodes, and time for word of mouth to popularize it... unless Fox pulled more slow death dickery. I can't really speak to Buffy and Angel, but with regards to Firefly and Dollhouse... The indication is that Whedon wouldn't so much fuck it up, but requirements by Fox would force him to fuck it up. Compare "Train Job" to the original first episode of Firefly. Compare early episodes of Dollhouse to later ones, particularly the encore episode.

bostik 10y ago
Dollhouse could have been really good. The idea of using the Big Red Reset Button as a continuous plot element, and telling the arc story through seepage across resets was a brilliant way of giving the finger to almost every other series. And it turned into a young adults' barbie show.
- jandrese 10y ago
  Dollhouse was a misfire IMHO. I watched both seasons on Netflix and it never really found a groove. I was really annoyed that they more or less sidestepped the obvious ethical and moral issues and instead ended the show with outright supervilliany. It was just so dumb by the end that I felt kind of embarrassed to keep watching.
  - pmiller2 10y ago
    That's what happens when the network forces you to cram 5 years worth of story into 1 year. :/
flycaliguy 10y ago
That feels a bit like a cop-out to me. Part of the job of a television creative is effectively working inside of your network. Although it's better today, with Netflix and the free reign a lot of producers get, I think there is an art of show business maneuvering that shaped so much TV and kind of added to it's character. The classic "medium with a limitation" theory.

IgorPartola 10y ago

While I think Firefly had one or two more good seasons in it, I do support your argument. There are so many examples of shows having a strong start and then screwing up in a later season, making the whole series terrible. I think Heroes was the worst example of this: brilliant first season, complete garbage after. Glee is another example. I would have hated to see Firefly do this.

JshWright 10y ago
Heros fell apart during the writers strike. Personally I think shows should get three seasons by default, and should need a _really_ compelling reason to go beyond that.

kazagistar 10y ago

Actually, I think this is consistent. 13-26 or so episodes is a pretty good length. Beyond that, ideas get stale, characters get repetitive, plots get either formulaic, or too convoluted to ever resolve, and a show generally starts to tilt downward. I wish there were more shows that just were OK with planning an ending. I like stories with endings. Just know your limits, don't try to make a show that can go on for a million seasons, end it when its still good, and then use the goodwill garnered from making a masterpiece to build the next creative thing. I'm not sure why this model seems to be more successful in, say, Anime as opposed to western TV. Budget, maybe?

DanBC 10y ago
> I'm not sure why this model seems to be more successful in, say, Anime as opposed to western TV. Budget, maybe? It's mostly a US thing. The UK is fine with making shows that have short seasons and that only last two or three seasons.
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  Actually, I think the UK is the exception in this regard. Most other countries that shoot their own local TV shows have 6-9 month seasons. Brazil, India, China, Turkey.. etc. Furthermore I'm not convinced UK's shorter season format is a good thing. I actually think it's a symptom of much smaller budgets.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    Yes! You made me realise that I was applying my own limited view of tv shows (what I see on English TV) and appying that to the whole world.
jandrese 10y ago
I think they're starting to get it. Breaking Bad fully executed its ending. Game of Thrones announced their end years in advance. TV producers are finally starting to come on board with the idea of stopping a show even though it's popular.