10 ms·
USB-IF Publishes Audio Over USB Type-C Specifications
- lyonlim 10y agoWill this support existing devices with USB type-c?
- kalleboo 10y agoAllowing support for analog over the SBU pins and pure-digital sounds like it will cause confusion and support headaches when people buy cheap analog-only headphones and try to use them with a digital-only device...
- AstralStorm 10y agoThe analog audio is the supposedly less common and it still requires some digital hardware in the connector to negotiate the move. Might add well put a small cheap DAC and amp in. I'm pretty sure analog only headphones will become quite rare. Still much better than forced digital only.
- qb45 10y ago> The analog audio is the supposedly less common Maybe in the future, but there is like billions of analog headphones already in the wild. I can easily imagine appearance of semi-passive (only the negotiation logic) USB-C to jack adapters which would have exactly the kind of problem parent described. And face it, even if the standard prohibits such devices, they will still be made because there is a need for them. See USB A-A extensions cables.
- Someone 10y agoAdding a DAC to that semi-passive adapter wouldn't make it prohibitively expensive. Even if manufacturing costs doubled, I doubt sales prices and, with it, sales numbers, would go up much, if at all because margins on this kind of cable typically are enormous.
- blockoperation 10y agoAnalog-only headphones (mid-range to high-end ones at least) will never go away. People who care about having good headphones also care about having an equally good DAC and amplifier to go with them, and they're not going to be willing to pay the premium for decent ones every time they buy a new pair of headphones (good DACs and amplifiers are NOT cheap), nor will they be willing to pay for a mediocre DAC that they never use. It would be suicide for headphone companies to stop producing analog-only headphones, unless they can force everyone to scrap their analog-only sources (it might be possible with consumer toys like smartphones, and they might be able to convince gullible audiophiles if they can find the right marketing gimmick, but it will never happen in the professional world). And what about all of the analog-only headphones already in use? Quality headphones are not disposable products (they can last for decades when properly maintained), and nobody in their right mind is going to throw them out until every last analog output in the world has been magicked out of existence.
- cm2187 10y agoHere we are talking about saving space, so that's mostly on mobile devices. And irrespective of its quality, I don't think one can expect headphones that one carries around every day in one's pocket to last decades. I purchase reasonably good quality ones, but have to replace them every year. Which is also why I am not excited with those becoming even more expensive. The main grief I have is rather interoperativity. Right now I have a single set of headphones that I can forget on my pocket and that will work on any of the devices I use: ipad when traveling, home laptop, iphone, work desktop. Apple is introducing its own format. Intel is introducing its own. IT in my company will not replace my desktop for another 5 years. I will end up having to use 3 different headphones or have a pocket full of dongles.
- Matthias247 10y agoYeah, they won't go away, but they probably won't change to use a USB C connector. Instead they will stay at 3.5 or 6.3mm. That means you need an adapter anyway to connect those headphones to the device. Now there's the valid question why you want to produce a passive adapter that is only working with devices that support analog audio on USB C instead of producing an adapter with a DAC that works on all USB C devices. I guess the answer is as usual: Price. The manufacturers might be flooding ebay and co with supercheap adapters. And the end users will as usual have trouble to find out which ones will work with their phones and which not.
- highd 10y agoIt seems like the spec supports digital and analog audio data. That seems like a potential nightmare for consumers - your headphones may plug in to you phone, but they don't have a DAC, and neither does your phone. Or what if they both have DACs? I'm sure this will be standardized in the future, and I can see the advantages of dropping the connector. I just really like cool things that can be done with the DACs and ADCs built into people's phones
- corndoge 10y ago"The USB ADC 3.0 defines minimum interoperability across analog and digital devices in order to avoid confusion of end-users because of incompatibility."
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- initself 10y agoThe article says the headphones would have a DAC. You gotta get those headphone cones pumpin' somehow!
- HNSucksAss 10y agoHow the hell would your phone not have a DAC? It MUST have a DAC to drive its own speaker(s). Which is what proves that this entire headphone-jack-removal scam is bullshit with zero excuses.
- Animats 10y agoThe USB-C spec is just terrifying. All that functionality. All those pins in a tiny space. High-voltage high-current power, in either direction. HDMI. Analog audio. Even supports USB. Either end can be the master. There's even a protocol to support a tiny display on the cable to tell you what's going on or what's wrong. And some more features I missed. Yes, the mobile handset industry wants to get down to one connector, but they may have overloaded this one. Nobody is going to get 100% of this right for some time. Coming soon: lots of questions on Stack Overflow that begin "When I plug a USB-C cable between my X and my Y, ..."
- AstralStorm 10y agoYou mean, nobody will manage to do it exactly as in Lightning? It is already being done.
- cnvogel 10y agoIt probably could work of one assumes two equally smart devices on both ends, but USB always included shortcuts to allow the cheapest and flimsiest implementation (add a resistor between two pins) by garage shops building Phone chargers for 30¢/piece. And for them, its easy to mess around randomly, until their nonstandard non compliant junk means who-knows-what to a USB-C device. So, your $300 headphones will pretty certainly work with your $800 iPhone, but plugging them into that $3 (including shipping) charger?
- cm2187 10y agoActually that's a good point. Will we end up needing drivers for headsets if they add any non standard features? I can't help thinking planned obsolecense when I see these moves.
- nerdponx 10y agoDoes this imply that "audio over lightning" is on the way? I'm looking at you, Apple.
- hackmiester 10y agoI'm not sure what you mean. I use this every day in my car.
- notyourwork 10y agoIn your car's situation you are sending digital to your car stereo and its decoding and sending to your speakers. I believe OP was referencing analog audio.
- nerdponx 10y agoThanks for clarifying. Yes, I mean a little adapter box that I stick on the end of my iPhone that converts from digital to audio, so I can use my regular 1/8" aux cable for headphones.
- pitaj 10y agoIsn't this exactly what the adapter that comes with the iPhone 7 does? Either that or there's analog over lightning.
- notyourwork 10y agoThe comments associated with that article are abysmal.
- mwfunk 10y agoStandard Internet tech blog comments really. On a higher plane than Engadget/Gizmodo/Verge comments, but still dominated by enraged teens who really really want to prove to everyone that the phone their parents bought for them is better than the phone someone else's parents bought for them. In the Usenet days, there were comp.*.advocacy groups created specifically to absorb those kinds of discussions, but nowadays every comment section everywhere is an advocacy group. Lousy comments beget more lousy comments and drive away good comments.
- notyourwork 10y ago> Lousy comments beget more lousy comments and drive away good comments. Solving this problem would make for quite a company.
- lightedman 10y agoYea, let's replace a 3.5mm diameter jack with an 8.4mm x 2.6mm jack. All that space saving!!!! Note the supported formats are all DRM-encumbered? No Vorbis? no FLAC? Gotta love that money grab.
- greenpresident 10y agoAfter moving audio to USB-C, you only need one jack for charging and audio. Space saved right there. You'll also notice that 3.5 > 2.6, so it allows for thinner phones (for whatever that's worth...). USB-C also grips the jack on the inside, likely making the connector inside the phone smaller. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
- kaishiro 10y agoWhich is great, right up until you want to charge the device and use the audio jack. Now we're back to a splitter.
- j-pb 10y agoOr you can have two general purpose ports.
- F_r_k 10y agoOr,you know, add another port..
- arthurfm 10y agoIf smartphone manufacturer replace the 3.5mm jack with a USB-C port to save space, doesn't adding a second USB-C port (which will remained unused most of the time) defeat the point and also increase their costs?
- hyperbovine 10y agoThis argument, which was everywhere when apple launched the 7, seems like such a straw man. How often do people actually do this? Me: never. If you are charging your device, odds are good that you are within a foot of your desktop of laptop.
- xg15 10y agoSo if analog audio support is optional and all headphones are required to support digital, why would a vendor actually bother to implement analog output?
- TOMDM 10y agoThe niche audiophile market will pay large sums for questionably effective hardware. For anyone doing serious audio work, being able to change your DAC might be nice. I agree though, the justifications seem shaky
- xg15 10y agoI agree that there are benefits to consumers to have an analog interface - I just don't see any incentives for vendors to implement then. (Aside from vendors serving niche markets as you described)
- cm2187 10y agoI don't understand the point about saving space by eliminating the DAC. At the end of the day, to produce sound, we need a DAC. So there will have to be a DAC somewhere. How is creating bigger dongles "saving space". The users have to carry bigger accessories. It's like Intel's Skull Canyon mini-PC. They miniaturised the PC but the power supply is now nearly as big as the PC. What's the point of shipping a mini-PC with a humongous power supply?
- lm2s 10y agoIn the mini-PC case I can see it as a positive thing, where you can hide the power supply somewhere and just have the smallish PC box visible. So, to me, the mini PC box makes sense even if it comes with a large power supply. In the case of the DAC I'm not sure if the end-user will really have any benefit.
- Nullabillity 10y agoNot to mention that you still need DACs to drive the two/three onboard speakers.
- cm2187 10y agoGood point!
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- andai 10y agoAt least in term of Apple, it makes a bit more sense when you consider that apple owns Beats, the best selling Bluetooth headphones in the world, and also that they'll get paid a flat fee for each lightning compatible set of headphones made. It's about the courage to make lots of money!
- TeMPOraL 10y agoYeah, isn't that what all those personal development gurus were telling us for years? You need courage to be rich!
- SFJulie 10y agoUSB type C specification is looking like the F35 specifications: able to do everything. Jack of all trades often are masters of none, and audio is a little sensitive topic in electronic ; it does not need a big bandwidth but it hates lag, and non guaranteed time slices and it hates noisy background. If Audio in this case do works without surprises I will be surprised and will admit that I was a miscreant unbeliever. Still putting smartness in a device that is so far from the CPU violates some clear common sense in async handling in the realm of hardware for time critical devices...
- falcolas 10y agoAn interesting confluence; Headroom just published an article about attempting to use a dongle, and the cost to the sound quality. https://www.headphone.com/blogs/news/this-is-the-dawning-of-a-new-era-for-portable-devices https://www.headphone.com/blogs/news/this-is-the-dawning-of-... Not the best comparison, but a good quick overview of the "state of the art" right now.
- hogrammer 10y agoDo they really save internal size by not having a DAC internally for the analog lines on USB-C? They already need a DAC for the internal speakers. How much silicon could one take?