5 ms·

Why do I need to install free, cross-platform, open-source program if I can render pdf in my browser?

jhasse 10y ago
You don't need to install one, it comes pre-installed on Windows, Mac and nearly all Linux distros. (The first two aren't open-source though).
- oblio 10y ago
  Maybe I missed some recent news, but what PDF viewer is pre-installed on Windows?
  - mhurron 10y ago
    There was one in Windows 8 (Windows Reader) but it was removed in Windows 10. It is still available for free in the Windows Store.
    - jhasse 10y ago
      Yeah I was thinking of the one included in Windows 8, didn't know that they dropped it.
    - rincebrain 10y ago
      Did they? Edge definitely still opens PDFs by default on Windows 10.
      - mhurron 10y ago
        Did you upgrade from Windows 8 or install new? New installs of Windows 10 or upgrades from 7 won't have it installed. I'm talking about Reader btw, which would be analogous to macOS's Preview. Edge is like Firefox with PDF.js. Reader works better than PDF.js too.
    - krylon 10y ago
      I remember that one. Before 8.1, it could not print PDFs. I have been struggling ever since to come up with an appropriate metaphor for how idiotic a PDF viewer without printing is.
      - WorldMaker 10y ago
        Windows 8 tried to move all of printing into the Charms bar, which was a great idea in that something so common (so many apps need to print) would have one big place to nearly always find it, but of course was also a bad idea because learning the Charms required unlearning the idea that every app has its own Print button scattered somewhere possibly randomly in the app itself and learning the Charms instead. So you could definitely print PDFs in Windows 8 from the Devices Charm. You'd just need to know that was what the Devices Charm was for. (I thought the Charms were a good idea that Microsoft didn't quite know how to execute.)
        krylon 10y ago
        Thanks for the explanation! Having a single place for printing rather than one per application sounds like a nice idea indeed. If only they had documented it better... ;-)
    - WorldMaker 10y ago
      In Windows 10, Reader was officially merged into Edge. The app that remains in the Windows Store will gently encourage you to use Edge instead. This seems part of the direction shift from simple task-focused apps (back) towards branded monolithic apps as Microsoft tries to find a healthy middle ground between good for mobile and convenient for old desktop users. (It's been a bigger deal of public concern with the Messaging/Phone/Skype apps back and forth shifts, but that hasn't been the only place this has been happening, as seen here with Reader, Reading List, and Edge.)
  - carrier_lost 10y ago
    In Windows 10, Microsoft Edge is used to view PDFs.
    - makomk 10y ago
      Which is another reason Mozilla needs to have a PDF viewer - it's a feature web browsers are simply expected to have these days.
      - petecox 10y ago
        OTOH, pdf.js is the first thing I disable in Firefox, since SumatraPDF and Atril render things much more quickly and lightly! :) I can understand customer demand but I'd prefer if it was optional - e.g. the first time a user visits a PDF they're prompted to install a viewer if they so wish.
  - MLR 10y ago
    AFAIK Edge is the default PDF viewer in Windows 10.
- nv-vn 10y ago
  Nearly all Linux distros? Other than the Ubuntu family and Fedora, which distros even come with one?
  - summarite 10y ago
    If you're techy enough to use a distro apart from Ubuntu you probably know how to install a PDF viewer in a few seconds.
    - nv-vn 10y ago
      True, but since Windows (up until 7, and then on 10 as well) doesn't come with a PDF viewer by default, the only popular platform that guarantees a PDF viewer is OS X, which only makes up a small portion of Firefox users (7 percent as of 2009 [1], can't find newer statistics though), especially since Firefox is quite popular for GNU/Linux users. And anyways, it all comes down to convenience. I know of many people who would much prefer viewing a PDF in their browser than having to switch between applications even though they're "techy enough" to install one. If people are happy with the PDF.js or some other in-browser PDF viewer, why make them switch? [1] https://www.cnet.com/news/only-7-percent-of-active-firefox-browsers-running-on-macs/ https://www.cnet.com/news/only-7-percent-of-active-firefox-b...
  - jhasse 10y ago
    For example: openSUSE, Manjaro, CentOS and Arch. If you install a DE like GNOME (evince), MATE (atril) or KDE (okular).
    - nv-vn 10y ago
      I can assure you that Arch Linux and Manjaro do not come with a PDF viewer. Considering openSUSE is distribute with other desktop environments than those you listed, it doesn't seem to come with a PDF viewer by default (although it's possible that I missed some package that adds it anyways). Please don't spread misinformation without first researching the topic.
      - 10y ago
pjmlp 10y ago
Because it slooooowwww.
- reitanqild 10y ago
  Never experienced that. Are you using an older machine?
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    No, relatively recent and configured for software development, including heavy IDE usage. Even on my beefy work laptop, a W510, it manages to be slow. Pages don't get rendered properly, sometimes it hangs between pages and the whole Firefox interface doesn't render and so on. Hence why I always re-configure Firefox to save PDFs instead of using PDF.js.
    - reitanqild 10y ago
      OK, our experiences differ it seems. Maybe your docs are bigger or harder to render or something. I mostly open < 50page docs, typically api specs etc. I guess they are converted from Word although hard to say. Computers specs are 1 y.o. laptop, ssd, dual core intel with 16 GB memory and ssd. I have expeeienced broken docs once or twice but nothing that really bothered me. For me the convenience of normal Firefox search etc working is worth firing up an external pdf reader for once or twice a year. I wonder if I haven't seens ome kind of web form or something where you could submit hard-to-render docs but this of course doesn't help if the docs are NDAed or something.

You don't need to install one, it comes pre-installed on Windows, Mac and nearly all Linux distros. (The first two aren't open-source though).

oblio 10y ago
Maybe I missed some recent news, but what PDF viewer is pre-installed on Windows?
- mhurron 10y ago
  There was one in Windows 8 (Windows Reader) but it was removed in Windows 10. It is still available for free in the Windows Store.
  - jhasse 10y ago
    Yeah I was thinking of the one included in Windows 8, didn't know that they dropped it.
  - rincebrain 10y ago
    Did they? Edge definitely still opens PDFs by default on Windows 10.
    - mhurron 10y ago
      Did you upgrade from Windows 8 or install new? New installs of Windows 10 or upgrades from 7 won't have it installed. I'm talking about Reader btw, which would be analogous to macOS's Preview. Edge is like Firefox with PDF.js. Reader works better than PDF.js too.
  - krylon 10y ago
    I remember that one. Before 8.1, it could not print PDFs. I have been struggling ever since to come up with an appropriate metaphor for how idiotic a PDF viewer without printing is.
    - WorldMaker 10y ago
      Windows 8 tried to move all of printing into the Charms bar, which was a great idea in that something so common (so many apps need to print) would have one big place to nearly always find it, but of course was also a bad idea because learning the Charms required unlearning the idea that every app has its own Print button scattered somewhere possibly randomly in the app itself and learning the Charms instead. So you could definitely print PDFs in Windows 8 from the Devices Charm. You'd just need to know that was what the Devices Charm was for. (I thought the Charms were a good idea that Microsoft didn't quite know how to execute.)
      - krylon 10y ago
        Thanks for the explanation! Having a single place for printing rather than one per application sounds like a nice idea indeed. If only they had documented it better... ;-)
  - WorldMaker 10y ago
    In Windows 10, Reader was officially merged into Edge. The app that remains in the Windows Store will gently encourage you to use Edge instead. This seems part of the direction shift from simple task-focused apps (back) towards branded monolithic apps as Microsoft tries to find a healthy middle ground between good for mobile and convenient for old desktop users. (It's been a bigger deal of public concern with the Messaging/Phone/Skype apps back and forth shifts, but that hasn't been the only place this has been happening, as seen here with Reader, Reading List, and Edge.)
- carrier_lost 10y ago
  In Windows 10, Microsoft Edge is used to view PDFs.
  - makomk 10y ago
    Which is another reason Mozilla needs to have a PDF viewer - it's a feature web browsers are simply expected to have these days.
    - petecox 10y ago
      OTOH, pdf.js is the first thing I disable in Firefox, since SumatraPDF and Atril render things much more quickly and lightly! :) I can understand customer demand but I'd prefer if it was optional - e.g. the first time a user visits a PDF they're prompted to install a viewer if they so wish.
- MLR 10y ago
  AFAIK Edge is the default PDF viewer in Windows 10.
nv-vn 10y ago
Nearly all Linux distros? Other than the Ubuntu family and Fedora, which distros even come with one?
- summarite 10y ago
  If you're techy enough to use a distro apart from Ubuntu you probably know how to install a PDF viewer in a few seconds.
  - nv-vn 10y ago
    True, but since Windows (up until 7, and then on 10 as well) doesn't come with a PDF viewer by default, the only popular platform that guarantees a PDF viewer is OS X, which only makes up a small portion of Firefox users (7 percent as of 2009 [1], can't find newer statistics though), especially since Firefox is quite popular for GNU/Linux users. And anyways, it all comes down to convenience. I know of many people who would much prefer viewing a PDF in their browser than having to switch between applications even though they're "techy enough" to install one. If people are happy with the PDF.js or some other in-browser PDF viewer, why make them switch? [1] https://www.cnet.com/news/only-7-percent-of-active-firefox-browsers-running-on-macs/ https://www.cnet.com/news/only-7-percent-of-active-firefox-b...
- jhasse 10y ago
  For example: openSUSE, Manjaro, CentOS and Arch. If you install a DE like GNOME (evince), MATE (atril) or KDE (okular).
  - nv-vn 10y ago
    I can assure you that Arch Linux and Manjaro do not come with a PDF viewer. Considering openSUSE is distribute with other desktop environments than those you listed, it doesn't seem to come with a PDF viewer by default (although it's possible that I missed some package that adds it anyways). Please don't spread misinformation without first researching the topic.
    - 10y ago

pjmlp 10y ago

Because it slooooowwww.

reitanqild 10y ago
Never experienced that. Are you using an older machine?
- pjmlp 10y ago
  No, relatively recent and configured for software development, including heavy IDE usage. Even on my beefy work laptop, a W510, it manages to be slow. Pages don't get rendered properly, sometimes it hangs between pages and the whole Firefox interface doesn't render and so on. Hence why I always re-configure Firefox to save PDFs instead of using PDF.js.
  - reitanqild 10y ago
    OK, our experiences differ it seems. Maybe your docs are bigger or harder to render or something. I mostly open < 50page docs, typically api specs etc. I guess they are converted from Word although hard to say. Computers specs are 1 y.o. laptop, ssd, dual core intel with 16 GB memory and ssd. I have expeeienced broken docs once or twice but nothing that really bothered me. For me the convenience of normal Firefox search etc working is worth firing up an external pdf reader for once or twice a year. I wonder if I haven't seens ome kind of web form or something where you could submit hard-to-render docs but this of course doesn't help if the docs are NDAed or something.