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I have to agree. The destruction of the old Penn Station was a tragedy, but it is over and done with. We need to look forward to what the best use of resources

I have to agree. The destruction of the old Penn Station was a tragedy, but it is over and done with. We need to look forward to what the best use of resources is today for the people of NYC. And that's not a pretty building -- it's increased capacity, resiliency, and safety.

arbuge 10y ago
Perhaps, but that mindset is what led to the tragedy you mention in the first place...
- bradleyjg 10y ago
  I don't think MSG and associated office tower did much good for the people of NYC. They certainly didn't increase capacity, resiliency, and safety of the mass transit system. I was in the WTC transportation hub the other day. That thing cost $3.74 billion dollars, went almost a decade over the original projected completion time, and is not particularly great as a station. It's also in my opinion somewhat ugly, but I'll concede that opinions might differ on that. Meanwhile the subway system, and greater regional transit system has some very critical needs -- things like communications-based train control, positive train control, track maintenance, station maintenance, tunnel repairs, and additional capacity for rapidly growing neighborhoods.
  - mason55 10y ago
    The difference is that fixing up Penn Station is mostly just a matter of throwing money at the problem. Things like CBTC and increased capacity require sensitive negotiations with unions and local businesses.
  - kevin_thibedeau 10y ago
    All the mall shoppers ambling about make it a PITA to exit the place without a direct escalator out.
bogomipz 10y ago
"We need to look forward to what the best use of resources is today for the people of NYC. And that's not a pretty building -- it's increased capacity, resiliency, and safety." But those two things needn't be be mutually exclusive right? There are plenty of modern examples that offer both. The Santiago Calatrava World Trade Center Station in downtown Manhattan, The Gare de Oriente in Lisbon, the Rotterdam Centraal in the Netherlands, Liège-Guillemins railway station in Belgium are all examples that combine both practicality and good aesthetics. For those interested: http://www.archdaily.com/783965/world-trade-center-transportation-hub-santiago-calatrava http://www.archdaily.com/783965/world-trade-center-transport... http://inhabitat.com/santiago-calatravas-gorgeous-oriente-station-is-topped-with-a-leaf-like-canopy-that-looks-lighter-than-air/oriente-station-lisbon-portugal-1/ http://inhabitat.com/santiago-calatravas-gorgeous-oriente-st... http://www.dezeen.com/2009/12/02/liege-guillemins-station-by-santiago-calatrava/ http://www.dezeen.com/2009/12/02/liege-guillemins-station-by... http://www.archdaily.com/588218/rotterdam-central-station-benthem-crouwel-architects-mvsa-meyer-en-van-schooten-architecten-and-west-8 http://www.archdaily.com/588218/rotterdam-central-station-be...
- moogly 10y ago
  Call me old-fashioned, but all of those look positively hideous to me.

arbuge 10y ago

Perhaps, but that mindset is what led to the tragedy you mention in the first place...

bradleyjg 10y ago
I don't think MSG and associated office tower did much good for the people of NYC. They certainly didn't increase capacity, resiliency, and safety of the mass transit system. I was in the WTC transportation hub the other day. That thing cost $3.74 billion dollars, went almost a decade over the original projected completion time, and is not particularly great as a station. It's also in my opinion somewhat ugly, but I'll concede that opinions might differ on that. Meanwhile the subway system, and greater regional transit system has some very critical needs -- things like communications-based train control, positive train control, track maintenance, station maintenance, tunnel repairs, and additional capacity for rapidly growing neighborhoods.
- mason55 10y ago
  The difference is that fixing up Penn Station is mostly just a matter of throwing money at the problem. Things like CBTC and increased capacity require sensitive negotiations with unions and local businesses.
- kevin_thibedeau 10y ago
  All the mall shoppers ambling about make it a PITA to exit the place without a direct escalator out.

bogomipz 10y ago

"We need to look forward to what the best use of resources is today for the people of NYC. And that's not a pretty building -- it's increased capacity, resiliency, and safety." But those two things needn't be be mutually exclusive right? There are plenty of modern examples that offer both. The Santiago Calatrava World Trade Center Station in downtown Manhattan, The Gare de Oriente in Lisbon, the Rotterdam Centraal in the Netherlands, Liège-Guillemins railway station in Belgium are all examples that combine both practicality and good aesthetics. For those interested: http://www.archdaily.com/783965/world-trade-center-transportation-hub-santiago-calatrava http://www.archdaily.com/783965/world-trade-center-transport... http://inhabitat.com/santiago-calatravas-gorgeous-oriente-station-is-topped-with-a-leaf-like-canopy-that-looks-lighter-than-air/oriente-station-lisbon-portugal-1/ http://inhabitat.com/santiago-calatravas-gorgeous-oriente-st... http://www.dezeen.com/2009/12/02/liege-guillemins-station-by-santiago-calatrava/ http://www.dezeen.com/2009/12/02/liege-guillemins-station-by... http://www.archdaily.com/588218/rotterdam-central-station-benthem-crouwel-architects-mvsa-meyer-en-van-schooten-architecten-and-west-8 http://www.archdaily.com/588218/rotterdam-central-station-be...

moogly 10y ago
Call me old-fashioned, but all of those look positively hideous to me.