5 ms·

Midtown is a strange combination of seedy, dirty, weird, sketchy, and "cleaned up" tourist destinations. It's busy, full of massage parlors and bad souvenir sto

Midtown is a strange combination of seedy, dirty, weird, sketchy, and "cleaned up" tourist destinations. It's busy, full of massage parlors and bad souvenir stores, safe, and full of families on vacation. Probably my least favorite part of Manhattan to work in.

eric_h 10y ago
What's amusing about that whole neighborhood is that it really is a tourist destination and as such is the only part of New York that many tourists see. It is very much unlike the rest of the city and yet, that is the impression that tourists will get of what New York is. The reality is quite different.
- pavement 10y ago
  Tell me about it! I grew up in the tri-state area, and thought Penn Station was The City for most of my childhood. There's a ghost of this sensation that still haunts me, when I'm in that part of town. Most of the time, trips to Manhattan were by train. A smaller handful of outings were field trips by school bus or by driving in, and arriving at a parking garage. It wasn't until my late teens that I began to explore the rest of the city, and find new places without the lid of parental supervision or chaperones. It wasn't until my 20's that I realized there were parts of NYC that weren't littered with tourist trap schlock shops brimming with statue of liberty figurines and empire state building miniatures. The really funny part is that my siblings still think that way, and in their mind, when I describe hanging out in the city, I think they imagine me hobnobbing with vagrants in front of the Arby's on 8th ave.
  - harmmonica 10y ago
    Such an interesting comment for me given the plan in the article. I grew up in the tri-state area as well, but north of the city and so my access point was always Metro North and thus arrived at Grand Central. Every time I'd show up there I'd have this unbelievable excitement to see Grand Central's soaring ceiling, the clock at the information booth, even the feeling of the heavy (are they?) bronze doors to 42nd or Lexington... There really is something magical about an epic entrance to a city and our very different experiences speak directly to it. I see the comment about the traffic stats not necessarily justifying spending dollars on the experience of Penn Station, and I partly agree with that, but there's something you can't quantify about how important a first impression is (or maybe you can quantify it; I imagine you, pavement, and all the folks like you, who might have been turned off by that Penn Station experience flipping to Grand Central as the entryway and how many more dollars you might spend in the city over the course of your lives as a direct result of that improved first impression).
    - potatolicious 10y ago
      There is a famous and relevant quote about Penn Station (and its modern, terrible replacement): "One entered the city like a god; one scuttles in now like a rat."
rm999 10y ago
Midtown West is like that. Midtown East is much less touristy and includes great restaurants, a lot of office buildings, and fairly residential parts (like Murray Hill). It also includes Penn Station's foil - Grand Central (Grand Central was actually saved because of the lessons learned from Penn Station).
- potatolicious 10y ago
  Agree, I think that discounting Midtown entirely as a concrete bore lacks enough nuance. There are certain parts of Midtown that are quite pleasant (well, assuming you're cool with lots of people). Each of the Avenues have their own character, it so happens that 7th Ave and 8th Ave tends to be seedy, under-utilized, deserted, and altogether unpleasant. Compare with, say, 5th Ave or 6th Ave, which even in its most tourist-trap-laden spots are actually reasonably pleasant places to be. Or like you said, further east. I don't really consider Murray Hill/Kips Bay part of Midtown, but even Midtown East (42nd thru 59th) is rather nice and suffers from few/none of the problems that plague 7th and 8th Ave. I think much of the problem comes down to the under-development of the Far West Side. The east side of Manhattan is extensively developed for commercial and residential use all the way to the edge of the water. The west side on the other hand continues to be a mix of light industry, auto shops, warehouses, and general usage that discourages public traffic. The development of Hudson Yards (the form of which I disagree with) will hopefully alleviate some of this problem. As it is the area around Penn serves no useful purpose for anyone besides commuters passing through. The introduction of mass residential and commercial use should hopefully fix some of this.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    In addition to Hudson Yards (which I don't really have an opinion on) and the completion of the High Line's northern end, there's also been a fair bit of other building and, I guess, gentrification in Hell's Kitchen generally. New restaurants, hotels, etc. If I'm going to a show at the Javits and/or want to otherwise be in the vicinity of midtown theaters, that's where I tend to stay these days. It's convenient, has good access to reasonably priced restaurants, and is close to many of the theaters and other Midtown attractions while being outside of Times Square craziness/crush.

eric_h 10y ago

What's amusing about that whole neighborhood is that it really is a tourist destination and as such is the only part of New York that many tourists see. It is very much unlike the rest of the city and yet, that is the impression that tourists will get of what New York is. The reality is quite different.

pavement 10y ago
Tell me about it! I grew up in the tri-state area, and thought Penn Station was The City for most of my childhood. There's a ghost of this sensation that still haunts me, when I'm in that part of town. Most of the time, trips to Manhattan were by train. A smaller handful of outings were field trips by school bus or by driving in, and arriving at a parking garage. It wasn't until my late teens that I began to explore the rest of the city, and find new places without the lid of parental supervision or chaperones. It wasn't until my 20's that I realized there were parts of NYC that weren't littered with tourist trap schlock shops brimming with statue of liberty figurines and empire state building miniatures. The really funny part is that my siblings still think that way, and in their mind, when I describe hanging out in the city, I think they imagine me hobnobbing with vagrants in front of the Arby's on 8th ave.
- harmmonica 10y ago
  Such an interesting comment for me given the plan in the article. I grew up in the tri-state area as well, but north of the city and so my access point was always Metro North and thus arrived at Grand Central. Every time I'd show up there I'd have this unbelievable excitement to see Grand Central's soaring ceiling, the clock at the information booth, even the feeling of the heavy (are they?) bronze doors to 42nd or Lexington... There really is something magical about an epic entrance to a city and our very different experiences speak directly to it. I see the comment about the traffic stats not necessarily justifying spending dollars on the experience of Penn Station, and I partly agree with that, but there's something you can't quantify about how important a first impression is (or maybe you can quantify it; I imagine you, pavement, and all the folks like you, who might have been turned off by that Penn Station experience flipping to Grand Central as the entryway and how many more dollars you might spend in the city over the course of your lives as a direct result of that improved first impression).
  - potatolicious 10y ago
    There is a famous and relevant quote about Penn Station (and its modern, terrible replacement): "One entered the city like a god; one scuttles in now like a rat."

rm999 10y ago

Midtown West is like that. Midtown East is much less touristy and includes great restaurants, a lot of office buildings, and fairly residential parts (like Murray Hill). It also includes Penn Station's foil - Grand Central (Grand Central was actually saved because of the lessons learned from Penn Station).

potatolicious 10y ago
Agree, I think that discounting Midtown entirely as a concrete bore lacks enough nuance. There are certain parts of Midtown that are quite pleasant (well, assuming you're cool with lots of people). Each of the Avenues have their own character, it so happens that 7th Ave and 8th Ave tends to be seedy, under-utilized, deserted, and altogether unpleasant. Compare with, say, 5th Ave or 6th Ave, which even in its most tourist-trap-laden spots are actually reasonably pleasant places to be. Or like you said, further east. I don't really consider Murray Hill/Kips Bay part of Midtown, but even Midtown East (42nd thru 59th) is rather nice and suffers from few/none of the problems that plague 7th and 8th Ave. I think much of the problem comes down to the under-development of the Far West Side. The east side of Manhattan is extensively developed for commercial and residential use all the way to the edge of the water. The west side on the other hand continues to be a mix of light industry, auto shops, warehouses, and general usage that discourages public traffic. The development of Hudson Yards (the form of which I disagree with) will hopefully alleviate some of this problem. As it is the area around Penn serves no useful purpose for anyone besides commuters passing through. The introduction of mass residential and commercial use should hopefully fix some of this.
- ghaff 10y ago
  In addition to Hudson Yards (which I don't really have an opinion on) and the completion of the High Line's northern end, there's also been a fair bit of other building and, I guess, gentrification in Hell's Kitchen generally. New restaurants, hotels, etc. If I'm going to a show at the Javits and/or want to otherwise be in the vicinity of midtown theaters, that's where I tend to stay these days. It's convenient, has good access to reasonably priced restaurants, and is close to many of the theaters and other Midtown attractions while being outside of Times Square craziness/crush.