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Its even scarier when someone takes one of your IoT devices and intends to harm you. Like making your fridge's ice maker flood your house. They talked about thi

Its even scarier when someone takes one of your IoT devices and intends to harm you. Like making your fridge's ice maker flood your house. They talked about this at Defcon 24.

unclebucknasty 10y ago
I'm really having trouble finding a use case for connecting some of this stuff, especially one that merits the risk.
- SEJeff 10y ago
  One word: convenience
  - briandear 10y ago
    I don't know what is convenient about a connected dishwasher. You still have to load the thing. Is pushing a physical start button that hard?
    - SEJeff 10y ago
      But it will tell you when it is done, same for a connected washer/dryer. Or a connected refrigerator that tells you when the filters are low or when you need to buy more eggs. I think it is silly. You think it is silly, but people will buy this crap. They think apps will solve their problems.
      - stephengillie 10y ago
        https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2324.txt https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2324.txt
      - unclebucknasty 10y ago
        Yeah, but a lot of that stuff is already doable. It's just not telling you remotely. For instance, the filter light is on when you walk by the refrigerator or the dishwasher beeps and shows an indicator when it's done. It's really more than sufficient to me. In fact, with everything else I have going on, I don't need my refrigerator texting me whenever it thinks it deserves my attention. That would actually be inconvenient. Then, there's this hidden cost of the purported "convenience". More stuff updating, hacked etc. And, with the thousand other devices, now I have to spend time configuring what I want to manage, etc. Reminds me of something I read years ago about the hidden costs of some tech. In one anecdote, subway riders were excited when A/C was installed on the train. Now, they could ride in comfort. What they didn't realize was the A/C exhaust heated the platform another 10 degrees or so, and they were actually less comfortable while waiting.
      - cylinder 10y ago
        They said we'd buy 3DTVs and such too, we didn't. The age of obsessing over appliance technology is over. They meet our basic needs and until they can save us massive amounts of time with more improvement the minimalist trend will continue and these will primarily be bought as designer item. People with money to spend are choosing design, real estate (location over structure), experiences and food.
    - jrnichols 10y ago
      Oh great, so my dishwasher can flood my kitchen and my network. Woohoo!
- ethanbond 10y ago
  It's because advertisers have armies of psychologists and mountains of data they can use to pull your ear and put it right up against a loudspeaker telling you to purchase stupid stuff. It's an arms race, and we measly individual consumers with real life concerns that don't center around defending our psyche from nonstop sensory ambush stand a very poor chance.
dqv 10y ago
Whatever. What's the worst that could happen? My dishwasher opening and spraying pressurized water at me? In all seriousness, it could be a good niche market "not internet capable".
- dublinben 10y ago
  With an internet connected thermostat, someone could turn off your heat while you are away during the winter, causing your pipes to burst and flooding your home. Alternatively, in the summertime they could crank up your heat and potentially kill any pets you have at home.
- bbayles 10y ago
  Water damage could run to hundreds of thousands of dollars in a few hours.
- askmike 10y ago
  To give in, what about blowing up? If some dishwashers do this without tampering, imagine what a dedicated attacker could do. http://www.recode.net/2016/9/29/13099092/samsung-exploding-robot-roommate-washing-machine http://www.recode.net/2016/9/29/13099092/samsung-exploding-r...
- tarancato 10y ago
  Your dishwasher potentially flooding your house doesn't sound bad enough to you? What if you have wood floors? What if water shorted electrical devices? All of this could cost you thousands in repairs.
  - dqv 10y ago
    My main concern is these devices causing bodily harm. The dishwasher spraying hot water at me is pretty scary. A flooded house isn't nearly as bad as being disfigured.
    - manarth 10y ago
      My main concern is these devices causing bodily harm That's a reasonable, genuine concern, and one that should require physical interlocks (not just software code) to guard against. That's a good situation for mandatory safety codes (such as the FDA requirements for 2 physical interlocks on microwaves [1]). [1] http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?FR=1030.10 http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRS...

Its even scarier when someone takes one of your IoT devices and intends to harm you. Like making your fridge's ice maker flood your house. They talked about this at Defcon 24.

unclebucknasty 10y ago

I'm really having trouble finding a use case for connecting some of this stuff, especially one that merits the risk.

SEJeff 10y ago
One word: convenience
- briandear 10y ago
  I don't know what is convenient about a connected dishwasher. You still have to load the thing. Is pushing a physical start button that hard?
  - SEJeff 10y ago
    But it will tell you when it is done, same for a connected washer/dryer. Or a connected refrigerator that tells you when the filters are low or when you need to buy more eggs. I think it is silly. You think it is silly, but people will buy this crap. They think apps will solve their problems.
    - stephengillie 10y ago
      https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2324.txt https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2324.txt
    - unclebucknasty 10y ago
      Yeah, but a lot of that stuff is already doable. It's just not telling you remotely. For instance, the filter light is on when you walk by the refrigerator or the dishwasher beeps and shows an indicator when it's done. It's really more than sufficient to me. In fact, with everything else I have going on, I don't need my refrigerator texting me whenever it thinks it deserves my attention. That would actually be inconvenient. Then, there's this hidden cost of the purported "convenience". More stuff updating, hacked etc. And, with the thousand other devices, now I have to spend time configuring what I want to manage, etc. Reminds me of something I read years ago about the hidden costs of some tech. In one anecdote, subway riders were excited when A/C was installed on the train. Now, they could ride in comfort. What they didn't realize was the A/C exhaust heated the platform another 10 degrees or so, and they were actually less comfortable while waiting.
    - cylinder 10y ago
      They said we'd buy 3DTVs and such too, we didn't. The age of obsessing over appliance technology is over. They meet our basic needs and until they can save us massive amounts of time with more improvement the minimalist trend will continue and these will primarily be bought as designer item. People with money to spend are choosing design, real estate (location over structure), experiences and food.
  - jrnichols 10y ago
    Oh great, so my dishwasher can flood my kitchen and my network. Woohoo!
ethanbond 10y ago
It's because advertisers have armies of psychologists and mountains of data they can use to pull your ear and put it right up against a loudspeaker telling you to purchase stupid stuff. It's an arms race, and we measly individual consumers with real life concerns that don't center around defending our psyche from nonstop sensory ambush stand a very poor chance.

dqv 10y ago

Whatever. What's the worst that could happen? My dishwasher opening and spraying pressurized water at me? In all seriousness, it could be a good niche market "not internet capable".

dublinben 10y ago
With an internet connected thermostat, someone could turn off your heat while you are away during the winter, causing your pipes to burst and flooding your home. Alternatively, in the summertime they could crank up your heat and potentially kill any pets you have at home.
bbayles 10y ago
Water damage could run to hundreds of thousands of dollars in a few hours.
askmike 10y ago
To give in, what about blowing up? If some dishwashers do this without tampering, imagine what a dedicated attacker could do. http://www.recode.net/2016/9/29/13099092/samsung-exploding-robot-roommate-washing-machine http://www.recode.net/2016/9/29/13099092/samsung-exploding-r...
tarancato 10y ago
Your dishwasher potentially flooding your house doesn't sound bad enough to you? What if you have wood floors? What if water shorted electrical devices? All of this could cost you thousands in repairs.
- dqv 10y ago
  My main concern is these devices causing bodily harm. The dishwasher spraying hot water at me is pretty scary. A flooded house isn't nearly as bad as being disfigured.
  - manarth 10y ago
    My main concern is these devices causing bodily harm That's a reasonable, genuine concern, and one that should require physical interlocks (not just software code) to guard against. That's a good situation for mandatory safety codes (such as the FDA requirements for 2 physical interlocks on microwaves [1]). [1] http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?FR=1030.10 http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRS...