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This seems way too biased against the cloud. It doesn't mention things like a solid sales relationship with your cloud provider which can help you unearth all k

This seems way too biased against the cloud. It doesn't mention things like a solid sales relationship with your cloud provider which can help you unearth all kinds of breaks and incentives. I've been using AWS in dedicated and hybrid modes since its inception. If you are hitting a pain point cost wise they will work with you to try to keep you from leaving or migrating services to on-site. He also doesn't mention the huge benefit of cost drops that cloud providers will give you that you will not see when you're on a 3-yr lease and a long-term DC/bandwidth commit.

kuschku 10y ago
Even those breaks and incentives can’t change a 2 order magnitude difference in cost between containerized products and bare metal, or the single order magnitude difference between virtualized and bare metal. If Amazon gives you the same service for a tenth or a hundredth of the price, sure, but that just doesn’t happen.
- dexterdog 10y ago
  Can you please give an example where you can see those cost savings because I will migrate to those services tomorrow.
  - kuschku 10y ago
    I’m comparing products like https://www.hetzner.de/us/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex41 https://www.hetzner.de/us/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex41 with similar performance at DigitalOcean and AWS’ EC2 cloud to get those numbers. The linked example is an Intel® Core™ i7-6700 with 32 GB DDR4 RAM, 2TB HDD storage (in a RAID, so raw capacity is 4TB, but usable is 2TB) and 1Gbit/s network connection (30TB traffic inclusive), for 40 bucks a month. Compare with DO: The closest comparable product at DO runs at 320 bucks a month, and you need to buy extra traffic (you get 23TB less traffic). On EC2, the best comparable model would be the m3.2xlarge, for 280 bucks a month. (plus another 100 bucks for the 24/7 phone support). Now, let’s try getting the same performance with service-as-a-service things: At heroku, 24/7 phone support alone is 1000 a month. Let’s assume a standard workload for that machine, we’ll use half of the RAM for Postgresql, and about 512GB storage for the database. With Heroku, that adds 750$ / month. If we take the cheapest solution – a single dyno of the most powerful type – we end up with 1250$/month + support. If we use seperate dynos for our services, as many as the original example server could run, we get 17 Performance M dynos at 250$/month each, overall reaching 4250$. And Google’s Firebase and Container Engine prices are at the same costs, same with Amazon Lambda, etc. And Hetzner isn’t especially cheap – any dedicated hoster will provide you their services at those prices. It’s just the nature of virtualization and higher abstractions that they are expensive. If you can handle servers failing in your infrastructure, go with the cheapest possible option – like KimSufi, Online.net, scaleways, etc. If you want the standard quality and price, use Hetzner, OVH, and all the other industry-standard hosters.
    - avifreedman 10y ago
      Agreed - LeaseWeb, OVH, Hetzner, and even SoftLayer if you call and negotiate can all be great options and have been very stable for many folks for dedicated servers. Generally I recommend that people not make long term commits, as it gives more leverage if there are network hot spots or other issues you need their help resolving.

kuschku 10y ago

Even those breaks and incentives can’t change a 2 order magnitude difference in cost between containerized products and bare metal, or the single order magnitude difference between virtualized and bare metal. If Amazon gives you the same service for a tenth or a hundredth of the price, sure, but that just doesn’t happen.

dexterdog 10y ago
Can you please give an example where you can see those cost savings because I will migrate to those services tomorrow.
- kuschku 10y ago
  I’m comparing products like https://www.hetzner.de/us/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex41 https://www.hetzner.de/us/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex41 with similar performance at DigitalOcean and AWS’ EC2 cloud to get those numbers. The linked example is an Intel® Core™ i7-6700 with 32 GB DDR4 RAM, 2TB HDD storage (in a RAID, so raw capacity is 4TB, but usable is 2TB) and 1Gbit/s network connection (30TB traffic inclusive), for 40 bucks a month. Compare with DO: The closest comparable product at DO runs at 320 bucks a month, and you need to buy extra traffic (you get 23TB less traffic). On EC2, the best comparable model would be the m3.2xlarge, for 280 bucks a month. (plus another 100 bucks for the 24/7 phone support). Now, let’s try getting the same performance with service-as-a-service things: At heroku, 24/7 phone support alone is 1000 a month. Let’s assume a standard workload for that machine, we’ll use half of the RAM for Postgresql, and about 512GB storage for the database. With Heroku, that adds 750$ / month. If we take the cheapest solution – a single dyno of the most powerful type – we end up with 1250$/month + support. If we use seperate dynos for our services, as many as the original example server could run, we get 17 Performance M dynos at 250$/month each, overall reaching 4250$. And Google’s Firebase and Container Engine prices are at the same costs, same with Amazon Lambda, etc. And Hetzner isn’t especially cheap – any dedicated hoster will provide you their services at those prices. It’s just the nature of virtualization and higher abstractions that they are expensive. If you can handle servers failing in your infrastructure, go with the cheapest possible option – like KimSufi, Online.net, scaleways, etc. If you want the standard quality and price, use Hetzner, OVH, and all the other industry-standard hosters.
  - avifreedman 10y ago
    Agreed - LeaseWeb, OVH, Hetzner, and even SoftLayer if you call and negotiate can all be great options and have been very stable for many folks for dedicated servers. Generally I recommend that people not make long term commits, as it gives more leverage if there are network hot spots or other issues you need their help resolving.