5 ms·

> Besides, banks aren't special. They're businesses like any other. They need to go bankrupt if they make stupid business decisions. I disagree. Banks form the

> Besides, banks aren't special. They're businesses like any other. They need to go bankrupt if they make stupid business decisions. I disagree. Banks form the foundation of the infrastructure of the capitalist system. Failure of banks has a large effect on the businesses that rely on that system to operate.

cmurf 10y ago
Is it really a capitalist system if the foundational infrastructure is ultimately public (the state), not private?
- sjclemmy 10y ago
  Yes it is. Capitalism doesn't mean an absence of government or make any distinction between private or public ownership, it simply means that the way resources are distributed is through a market system. In order for the market to operate a means of exchange that we all agree upon and trust is required. This is money. Banks manage the market system's means of exchange. If something happens that impedes the exchange, the system is compromised.
  - cmurf 10y ago
    capitalism: an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state. That's the dictionary definition. What you're talking about is "the free market" - which is not the same thing as capitalism.
    - sjclemmy 10y ago
      If we are nit picking... What I am talking about is free market capitalism. The definition you quote talks about trade and industry - which we can reduce down to calling the means of production. Capitalism is about ownership of the means of production for private gain. It doesn't exclude government ownership of resources / means of production or indeed and perhaps most importantly the money system. I think you could even argue that public ownership of the money system facilitates the capitalist economy. What does the central bank / federal reserve do?
  - vidarh 10y ago
    Market-communism is an actual ideology. Capitalism does not have any kind of monopoly on the use of market mechanisms.
cmdrfred 10y ago
I agree, but that is not a license to operate with impunity. They must either be heavily regulated or allowed to fail. Neither is not an option.
camperman 10y ago
That still doesn't make them special. The failure of any essential service provider or business partner can have a crippling effect on a business. That's just a risk you take precautions against as part of normal day to day operations. Treating them as the foundation of the infrastructure of the capitalist system and therefore somehow exempt from regulation, the law and the market is why the global economy is in such a mess today. There are no consequences any more to bad decisions by the global banks. They keep getting bailed out and bailed out and into more and more debt. One day the can will no longer be able to be kicked down the road.

cmurf 10y ago

Is it really a capitalist system if the foundational infrastructure is ultimately public (the state), not private?

sjclemmy 10y ago
Yes it is. Capitalism doesn't mean an absence of government or make any distinction between private or public ownership, it simply means that the way resources are distributed is through a market system. In order for the market to operate a means of exchange that we all agree upon and trust is required. This is money. Banks manage the market system's means of exchange. If something happens that impedes the exchange, the system is compromised.
- cmurf 10y ago
  capitalism: an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state. That's the dictionary definition. What you're talking about is "the free market" - which is not the same thing as capitalism.
  - sjclemmy 10y ago
    If we are nit picking... What I am talking about is free market capitalism. The definition you quote talks about trade and industry - which we can reduce down to calling the means of production. Capitalism is about ownership of the means of production for private gain. It doesn't exclude government ownership of resources / means of production or indeed and perhaps most importantly the money system. I think you could even argue that public ownership of the money system facilitates the capitalist economy. What does the central bank / federal reserve do?
- vidarh 10y ago
  Market-communism is an actual ideology. Capitalism does not have any kind of monopoly on the use of market mechanisms.

cmdrfred 10y ago

I agree, but that is not a license to operate with impunity. They must either be heavily regulated or allowed to fail. Neither is not an option.

camperman 10y ago

That still doesn't make them special. The failure of any essential service provider or business partner can have a crippling effect on a business. That's just a risk you take precautions against as part of normal day to day operations. Treating them as the foundation of the infrastructure of the capitalist system and therefore somehow exempt from regulation, the law and the market is why the global economy is in such a mess today. There are no consequences any more to bad decisions by the global banks. They keep getting bailed out and bailed out and into more and more debt. One day the can will no longer be able to be kicked down the road.