5 ms·

I don't understand. none of those examples are 'self-made'

by Teever 10y ago

namelezz 10y ago
In US, 'self-make' means 'privileged'
IAmGarrett 10y ago
What's your definition of self-made? I like "Someone with significant wealth who didn't receive inheritance or trust fund money."
- saiya-jin 10y ago
  Someone with significant wealth who reached 18 without any cash/value other than what he earned himself. Meaning self-funded university studies, pretty hard in US from what I heard. Would earn great respect not only from me. In more lenient fashion, somebody on top of this who finished university without debt, and no money apart from self-earned.
st3v3r 10y ago
But they're still usually counted as such. Both Donald Trump and Bill Gates are regularly touted as "self-made" Xillionaires. And, at least in terms of that book, we don't know what definition of self made is used, or how they counted it.
khedoros 10y ago
That's the point. They're saying that those 85% of self-made American millionaires aren't as "self-made" as they claim. Like me: I could talk about starting with almost nothing in my bank accounts, getting a job, working through the ranks, buying a home, and working toward my first million... conveniently leaving out all the advantages that I've had to get me to this point (cultural expectation that I'd go to college instilled in me from a young age, a family well-off enough to support that financially, uninterrupted time to work on the hobbies that grew into a career, etc). Quanticle seems to be relating the origins of Donald Trump and Bill Gates. Donald describes his fortune as self-made. Bill Gates has been described as self-made. It's true, if you only consider that their wealth is much greater than any gift they've ever received. It's false from the perspective that anyone could do it with enough hard work.
- wangchow 10y ago
  Honestly no one is self-made. People who don't have financial cushions still rely on others to back their idea and hard work. Problem is everyone on HN is talking about how to make millions when that's backwards mentality because then you'll never be satisfied. People need to strive for modest salaries and things that benefit society and the planet not filling one's pockets.
  - wolfgke 10y ago
    > People need to strive for modest salaries and things that benefit society and the planet not filling one's pockets. It's a lot easier to do projects that benefit society and the planet if you have millions in your pocket that you can spend/invest on them (say for paying employees or simply having financial runway).
    - gutnor 10y ago
      There is some truth in what parent is saying though. We have reach a point in the West were a comfortable life is basically possible for everyone. However, we still have the bullish culture from after the war that paints a guy that want a simple life as some sort of loser. So we go on holiday and marvel at the simple life of artisans, farmer or other, but we teach our children that such a lifestyle is a failure.
      - wolfgke 10y ago
        Everybody who thinks that their salary is too large is free to donate a large(r) part of the salary to things that he cares of. So if you think you earn a more modest salary, do so. The problem is that most people who talk of "more modest salaries" mean "others should have more modest salaries". Better call this envy. > So we go on holiday and marvel at the simple life of artisans, farmer or other. I surely don't. > We have reach a point in the West were a comfortable life is basically possible for everyone. However, we still have the bullish culture from after the war that paints a guy that want a simple life as some sort of loser. And what made it possible that leading a comfortable life is basically possible for everyone? Surely not the people who want a simple life. I can accept that technology has become too complicated for most people to grasp. I am among the first to accept this as a problem. But if this is your opinion, start to develop technology that is easier to grasp instead of complaining how complicated anything has become. The same holds for laws, too.
gutnor 10y ago
If you are born in the Western World, it is like starting a marathon 5 km away from the finish line and still be in the same race than the one starting at the beginning. When you start thinking everything you get for free, even just in a lower middle western family, compared to someone born in a war torn village in Africa, the concept of "self-made" becomes really meaningless.
- WalterBright 10y ago
  That's why a stable government that protects life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is necessary. The opportunity flows from that.

I don't understand. none of those examples are 'self-made'

by Teever 10y ago

I don't understand. none of those examples are 'self-made'

namelezz 10y ago

In US, 'self-make' means 'privileged'

IAmGarrett 10y ago

What's your definition of self-made? I like "Someone with significant wealth who didn't receive inheritance or trust fund money."

saiya-jin 10y ago
Someone with significant wealth who reached 18 without any cash/value other than what he earned himself. Meaning self-funded university studies, pretty hard in US from what I heard. Would earn great respect not only from me. In more lenient fashion, somebody on top of this who finished university without debt, and no money apart from self-earned.

st3v3r 10y ago

But they're still usually counted as such. Both Donald Trump and Bill Gates are regularly touted as "self-made" Xillionaires. And, at least in terms of that book, we don't know what definition of self made is used, or how they counted it.

khedoros 10y ago

That's the point. They're saying that those 85% of self-made American millionaires aren't as "self-made" as they claim. Like me: I could talk about starting with almost nothing in my bank accounts, getting a job, working through the ranks, buying a home, and working toward my first million... conveniently leaving out all the advantages that I've had to get me to this point (cultural expectation that I'd go to college instilled in me from a young age, a family well-off enough to support that financially, uninterrupted time to work on the hobbies that grew into a career, etc). Quanticle seems to be relating the origins of Donald Trump and Bill Gates. Donald describes his fortune as self-made. Bill Gates has been described as self-made. It's true, if you only consider that their wealth is much greater than any gift they've ever received. It's false from the perspective that anyone could do it with enough hard work.

wangchow 10y ago
Honestly no one is self-made. People who don't have financial cushions still rely on others to back their idea and hard work. Problem is everyone on HN is talking about how to make millions when that's backwards mentality because then you'll never be satisfied. People need to strive for modest salaries and things that benefit society and the planet not filling one's pockets.
- wolfgke 10y ago
  > People need to strive for modest salaries and things that benefit society and the planet not filling one's pockets. It's a lot easier to do projects that benefit society and the planet if you have millions in your pocket that you can spend/invest on them (say for paying employees or simply having financial runway).
  - gutnor 10y ago
    There is some truth in what parent is saying though. We have reach a point in the West were a comfortable life is basically possible for everyone. However, we still have the bullish culture from after the war that paints a guy that want a simple life as some sort of loser. So we go on holiday and marvel at the simple life of artisans, farmer or other, but we teach our children that such a lifestyle is a failure.
    - wolfgke 10y ago
      Everybody who thinks that their salary is too large is free to donate a large(r) part of the salary to things that he cares of. So if you think you earn a more modest salary, do so. The problem is that most people who talk of "more modest salaries" mean "others should have more modest salaries". Better call this envy. > So we go on holiday and marvel at the simple life of artisans, farmer or other. I surely don't. > We have reach a point in the West were a comfortable life is basically possible for everyone. However, we still have the bullish culture from after the war that paints a guy that want a simple life as some sort of loser. And what made it possible that leading a comfortable life is basically possible for everyone? Surely not the people who want a simple life. I can accept that technology has become too complicated for most people to grasp. I am among the first to accept this as a problem. But if this is your opinion, start to develop technology that is easier to grasp instead of complaining how complicated anything has become. The same holds for laws, too.

gutnor 10y ago

If you are born in the Western World, it is like starting a marathon 5 km away from the finish line and still be in the same race than the one starting at the beginning. When you start thinking everything you get for free, even just in a lower middle western family, compared to someone born in a war torn village in Africa, the concept of "self-made" becomes really meaningless.

WalterBright 10y ago
That's why a stable government that protects life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is necessary. The opportunity flows from that.