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>People who come from poverty or communities rampant with discrimination often times have to work harder for opportunities. But hard work is hard work, and ther

>People who come from poverty or communities rampant with discrimination often times have to work harder for opportunities. But hard work is hard work, and there is fierce competition at every level, no matter who you are. I hesitate to take anything away from anyone's success. Tell that to the kid making iPhones in the Foxconn facility. Success isn't where you are, it's how far you've come. By that metric the most successful thing you can do in life is have a father like Sam Walton.

hueving 10y ago
Hard work is requisite, not satisfactory. You can dig ditches in your own yard for 14 hours a day and you aren't going to be successful. Similarly, you can start a business with your $1 million inherited wealth, but it has an extremely high probability of failing without hard work. >Tell that to the kid making iPhones in the Foxconn facility. I'm not even sure what your point is. GP was pointing out that competition at every level is fierce. Not sure what that has to do with the Foxconn employee. Are they known for not being competitive?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- icantdrive55 10y ago
  In software/technology developement--yes. I grew up with rich kids. I live in Marin County. The place your founders will end up in, if they make it big. The rich kids, I know, didn't work that hard. Some didn't work at all. Even as a slight insider, they all seemed to be just having a good time, and partying a lot more than myself. They were all set up in nice houses/condos. They all had nice cars. They had the nice girlfriend. They just didn't have to worry about what poor/middle class kids gave to deal with. Crazy mom--hire someone. Alcoholic dad--hire someone. Have a life incident, like a legal problem, break down, accident--there's money to take care of the mess. A big incident for a poor/middle class kid--it could affect the rest of their lives. They all has the chance to go to a good college, with everything paid. None of the kids, I knew, finished. "It was just boring." They all had helpful fathers, who gave them good business advice though. That good business advice, along with funds goes a long way. A few examples: The inventor of plastic tooth picks/a consumer dental pick. Yea, those white tooth picks you see discarded everywhere. The pull-tabs of this decade. This kids father was a dentist, and designed a bunch of products--from CAD to a warehouse full of boxes. Set up a company for his son, paid for everything including the son's nice apartment, nice car, two boats, etc. This kid was handed just so much. His dad even set up the first appointments to peddle his products. He gave everything to his kid; all control, all profits--just a gift. The business just took off. This kid spend more time sailing, than any hard work. I think the $7.40/hr secretary was more responsible for the success of that business that the kid. When the business got huge--the kid moved it to Tennessee. Supposedly for tax reasons; I belive he didn't want his retired after hanging around the office. (Why didn't his father do it all? His father was a successful dentist. Very successful, and already owned other cash cows, like mini storages. He just wanted to give his son something. Gavin Newsome, our luitenant governor. Kid went to college, and dropped out--dyslexic. Wanted to be a baseball player. Wasen't good enough. He was lost. Family stepped in and gave him money to open some bars. Failed. Family stepped in and gave him money to open speciality wine stores in San Francisco--kinda successful. Real success was family money, and marrying right. He didn't work very hard. Then the families friends, the Gettys decided to offer help. 'He needs direction. Let's make him mayor? He did work hard in that campaign, but not hard work like we you think. When you don't have to worry about lodging, travel, free legal guidance, free everything--it becomes a game. Another kid I grew up with is very rich, even with a TBI. (He was in a bar fight, and was cold cocked.). He blames his bad attitude of his TBI. His parents bought him houses. His job, over the years, was to collect rent. No maintance. Just the rent. He now is living high, but if he doesn't cut back on the drinking, they will need to open that zipper in his chest again. My point is when you are in your in your money making years, if you have it financially easy, offered good opportunities; there's not a lot of sweat. Hard work is not what my neighbors do. Every successful person I knew/grew up with had a sympathetic, rich father. When money isn't so tight, it does make it easier to finish school. The rich kids I knew didn't even have to go to school. A lot of their fathers did go to school though. Yes, there are a few doctors who make a fortune off their patients. I look back, it seems like the wealthy doctors slept through the ethics class though. Yes, there are lawyers who made a fortune, and did work hard getting through law school. Their kids did not have to go to a professional school, in order to "make it". My point is their kids did not work that hard. I'm sorry, but I just didn't see it. It seems like once you are wealthy, it's hard to squander it away, unless you come from a very poor family, have just horrid judgement, or no one around to guide you. A poor guy wins the lottery--yea, it's usually gone. But the wealthy families here, just seem to keep that money. Their is usually a wise patriarch that puts the breaks on bad business moves. Even the family's with the stereotypical drug addict son/daughter don't get cut off. They are sent to rehab, and yes some die. My point is obvious. The wealth, the support, the good advice will take a average, the average, below average intellect very far here. They do not work hard, or I'm missing all their sweat? Look at Eric Trump, and his brother. Look at their wealth accumulation. Try to find where they worked hard. There's a lovely picture of both of them working hard in Africa. They are holding up a dead Tiger. One has a elephants tail, freshly cut off in his little hands. Dad's response, "He's--a--Good Shot!". Tell me these kids worked Hard. (They are easy targets, but not that unusual for rich kids.)
  - bootload 10y ago
    " Real success was family money, and marrying right. He didn't work very hard." Great point. There is a good historical example you can see this in the of the current BBC adaption of Winston Grahams series, Poldark. [0] Contrasting aristocratic families surviving by Name (old money and scheming) or by Wit (entrepreneurial graft and hard work) in the 18th century UK, Cornwall. [0] BFI Q&A with writer Debbie Horsfield and director Ed Bazalgette discussing adaption and research. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsCKYX9-ntw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsCKYX9-ntw
- TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
  >Hard work is requisite, not satisfactory. If you're one of the Rich Kids of Instagram, hard work doesn't seem to play much of a role in their lives. The point about Foxconn is obvious. How many Foxconn employees have a realistic chance of topping the rich list? Hard work, like the idea of being a self-made person, is largely a self-serving mythology. Real hard work is doing the same shitty job for 10-12 hours a day six or seven days a week and earning barely enough to pay the rent. That's the reality of hard work for much of the population. Fetishising the hard work of the already-rich discounts that ground truth.
wolfgke 10y ago
> Tell that to the kid making iPhones in the Foxconn facility. The kid in the Foxconn facility is better off if he works there than if he did not have any job. If it were otherwise he would quit the job (since the kid is a poor worker, but not a slave). So indeed having a job at Foxconn lead to a better (though still bad) life for the kid. The kid should rather complain at his parents that they, as poor people, gave life to him - they should know that because of their poverty he would lead a miserable life and hazarded the consequences.

hueving 10y ago

Hard work is requisite, not satisfactory. You can dig ditches in your own yard for 14 hours a day and you aren't going to be successful. Similarly, you can start a business with your $1 million inherited wealth, but it has an extremely high probability of failing without hard work. >Tell that to the kid making iPhones in the Foxconn facility. I'm not even sure what your point is. GP was pointing out that competition at every level is fierce. Not sure what that has to do with the Foxconn employee. Are they known for not being competitive?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
icantdrive55 10y ago
In software/technology developement--yes. I grew up with rich kids. I live in Marin County. The place your founders will end up in, if they make it big. The rich kids, I know, didn't work that hard. Some didn't work at all. Even as a slight insider, they all seemed to be just having a good time, and partying a lot more than myself. They were all set up in nice houses/condos. They all had nice cars. They had the nice girlfriend. They just didn't have to worry about what poor/middle class kids gave to deal with. Crazy mom--hire someone. Alcoholic dad--hire someone. Have a life incident, like a legal problem, break down, accident--there's money to take care of the mess. A big incident for a poor/middle class kid--it could affect the rest of their lives. They all has the chance to go to a good college, with everything paid. None of the kids, I knew, finished. "It was just boring." They all had helpful fathers, who gave them good business advice though. That good business advice, along with funds goes a long way. A few examples: The inventor of plastic tooth picks/a consumer dental pick. Yea, those white tooth picks you see discarded everywhere. The pull-tabs of this decade. This kids father was a dentist, and designed a bunch of products--from CAD to a warehouse full of boxes. Set up a company for his son, paid for everything including the son's nice apartment, nice car, two boats, etc. This kid was handed just so much. His dad even set up the first appointments to peddle his products. He gave everything to his kid; all control, all profits--just a gift. The business just took off. This kid spend more time sailing, than any hard work. I think the $7.40/hr secretary was more responsible for the success of that business that the kid. When the business got huge--the kid moved it to Tennessee. Supposedly for tax reasons; I belive he didn't want his retired after hanging around the office. (Why didn't his father do it all? His father was a successful dentist. Very successful, and already owned other cash cows, like mini storages. He just wanted to give his son something. Gavin Newsome, our luitenant governor. Kid went to college, and dropped out--dyslexic. Wanted to be a baseball player. Wasen't good enough. He was lost. Family stepped in and gave him money to open some bars. Failed. Family stepped in and gave him money to open speciality wine stores in San Francisco--kinda successful. Real success was family money, and marrying right. He didn't work very hard. Then the families friends, the Gettys decided to offer help. 'He needs direction. Let's make him mayor? He did work hard in that campaign, but not hard work like we you think. When you don't have to worry about lodging, travel, free legal guidance, free everything--it becomes a game. Another kid I grew up with is very rich, even with a TBI. (He was in a bar fight, and was cold cocked.). He blames his bad attitude of his TBI. His parents bought him houses. His job, over the years, was to collect rent. No maintance. Just the rent. He now is living high, but if he doesn't cut back on the drinking, they will need to open that zipper in his chest again. My point is when you are in your in your money making years, if you have it financially easy, offered good opportunities; there's not a lot of sweat. Hard work is not what my neighbors do. Every successful person I knew/grew up with had a sympathetic, rich father. When money isn't so tight, it does make it easier to finish school. The rich kids I knew didn't even have to go to school. A lot of their fathers did go to school though. Yes, there are a few doctors who make a fortune off their patients. I look back, it seems like the wealthy doctors slept through the ethics class though. Yes, there are lawyers who made a fortune, and did work hard getting through law school. Their kids did not have to go to a professional school, in order to "make it". My point is their kids did not work that hard. I'm sorry, but I just didn't see it. It seems like once you are wealthy, it's hard to squander it away, unless you come from a very poor family, have just horrid judgement, or no one around to guide you. A poor guy wins the lottery--yea, it's usually gone. But the wealthy families here, just seem to keep that money. Their is usually a wise patriarch that puts the breaks on bad business moves. Even the family's with the stereotypical drug addict son/daughter don't get cut off. They are sent to rehab, and yes some die. My point is obvious. The wealth, the support, the good advice will take a average, the average, below average intellect very far here. They do not work hard, or I'm missing all their sweat? Look at Eric Trump, and his brother. Look at their wealth accumulation. Try to find where they worked hard. There's a lovely picture of both of them working hard in Africa. They are holding up a dead Tiger. One has a elephants tail, freshly cut off in his little hands. Dad's response, "He's--a--Good Shot!". Tell me these kids worked Hard. (They are easy targets, but not that unusual for rich kids.)
- bootload 10y ago
  " Real success was family money, and marrying right. He didn't work very hard." Great point. There is a good historical example you can see this in the of the current BBC adaption of Winston Grahams series, Poldark. [0] Contrasting aristocratic families surviving by Name (old money and scheming) or by Wit (entrepreneurial graft and hard work) in the 18th century UK, Cornwall. [0] BFI Q&A with writer Debbie Horsfield and director Ed Bazalgette discussing adaption and research. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsCKYX9-ntw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsCKYX9-ntw
TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
>Hard work is requisite, not satisfactory. If you're one of the Rich Kids of Instagram, hard work doesn't seem to play much of a role in their lives. The point about Foxconn is obvious. How many Foxconn employees have a realistic chance of topping the rich list? Hard work, like the idea of being a self-made person, is largely a self-serving mythology. Real hard work is doing the same shitty job for 10-12 hours a day six or seven days a week and earning barely enough to pay the rent. That's the reality of hard work for much of the population. Fetishising the hard work of the already-rich discounts that ground truth.

wolfgke 10y ago

> Tell that to the kid making iPhones in the Foxconn facility. The kid in the Foxconn facility is better off if he works there than if he did not have any job. If it were otherwise he would quit the job (since the kid is a poor worker, but not a slave). So indeed having a job at Foxconn lead to a better (though still bad) life for the kid. The kid should rather complain at his parents that they, as poor people, gave life to him - they should know that because of their poverty he would lead a miserable life and hazarded the consequences.