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> what they need is some sort of advocate In brief, because I'm at my day job: no. That is not the right approach. That is the approach that gets one labeled a

by pnathan 10y ago

> what they need is some sort of advocate In brief, because I'm at my day job: no. That is not the right approach. That is the approach that gets one labeled an elitist and a snob. It's not appreciated by the little people you're trying to help. The correct approach is one which maximizes agency. This will have a wider variance of success, but will be received far better.

mixmastamyk 10y ago
That's why I wrote "respectfully".
- ducttapecrown 10y ago
  Offering aid without first having been asked for it could be considered disrespectful, condescending, etc.
  - mixmastamyk 10y ago
    Do you honestly believe I'd advocate forcing or pressuring people? How bout a little less defeatism. No, I'm thinking something like coaching for people who are looking for a way up.
    - int_19h 10y ago
      Honestly, a lot of this kind of coaching belongs as a mandatory class in school.
- pnathan 10y ago
  Very simply, there's a reason the rural joke goes like this: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help". It's just not appreciated. If you want to genuinely assist, you have to find ways that cohere with the culture and traditions of the place you're trying to support. The Outsider from California is an old meme. It's captured in this very very popular postcard found throughout Montana/Idaho: http://duckboy.com/postcards/all-postcards/more-californians-no-doubt.html http://duckboy.com/postcards/all-postcards/more-californians... I'm willing to bet based on certain comments earlier this year, the Outsider from NYC is a similar figure in the eastern part of the US. And, of course, "DC" or "Washington" is similarly vilified across the nation. So, you're an advocate coming in from your position of privilege: you are, in humor, an alien, and you purport to teach the people, in all best of intentions, how to do better. It's not that you're wrong. You just can't get to where you want from here without profound and deep disruption. Does this make sense here? If this is the sort of thing that interests you, you'll want to be looking at working with the local civic minded community pillars. Pastors, teachers, principals, mayors, doctors, etc. People with influence and understandings of the local culture. People with generational roots, bluntly. There is a fierce, fierce, fierce independence and individualism: coming in and telling people how to live isn't appreciated. This is, by the by, virtually a Hollywood stereotype- the well intentioned urbanite helping out the rurals. :-) I don't know that I have much more to say on HN... if you want to take up this thread at length, my email is in my profile. :-)
drakonandor 10y ago
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. The only way some people will learn to listen is by failing on their own.

by pnathan 10y ago

mixmastamyk 10y ago

That's why I wrote "respectfully".

ducttapecrown 10y ago
Offering aid without first having been asked for it could be considered disrespectful, condescending, etc.
- mixmastamyk 10y ago
  Do you honestly believe I'd advocate forcing or pressuring people? How bout a little less defeatism. No, I'm thinking something like coaching for people who are looking for a way up.
  - int_19h 10y ago
    Honestly, a lot of this kind of coaching belongs as a mandatory class in school.
pnathan 10y ago
Very simply, there's a reason the rural joke goes like this: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help". It's just not appreciated. If you want to genuinely assist, you have to find ways that cohere with the culture and traditions of the place you're trying to support. The Outsider from California is an old meme. It's captured in this very very popular postcard found throughout Montana/Idaho: http://duckboy.com/postcards/all-postcards/more-californians-no-doubt.html http://duckboy.com/postcards/all-postcards/more-californians... I'm willing to bet based on certain comments earlier this year, the Outsider from NYC is a similar figure in the eastern part of the US. And, of course, "DC" or "Washington" is similarly vilified across the nation. So, you're an advocate coming in from your position of privilege: you are, in humor, an alien, and you purport to teach the people, in all best of intentions, how to do better. It's not that you're wrong. You just can't get to where you want from here without profound and deep disruption. Does this make sense here? If this is the sort of thing that interests you, you'll want to be looking at working with the local civic minded community pillars. Pastors, teachers, principals, mayors, doctors, etc. People with influence and understandings of the local culture. People with generational roots, bluntly. There is a fierce, fierce, fierce independence and individualism: coming in and telling people how to live isn't appreciated. This is, by the by, virtually a Hollywood stereotype- the well intentioned urbanite helping out the rurals. :-) I don't know that I have much more to say on HN... if you want to take up this thread at length, my email is in my profile. :-)

drakonandor 10y ago

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. The only way some people will learn to listen is by failing on their own.