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"Last time I checked, Google search had 98% market share in Germany, Android had 78% market share worldwide. I don't see how you can talk about decentralisation

"Last time I checked, Google search had 98% market share in Germany, Android had 78% market share worldwide. I don't see how you can talk about decentralisation given dominance like that." They're not legislated as the Official Search Engine of the EU. Microsoft too once had 98% market share. As did IBM. Also, think of China, where Google has no market share. Baidu will grow and bide its time. "But if one is present, I don't see why handing the power to a government that is (in theory) regularly elected and bound to basic rules of conduct and transparency is worse than handing the same power to a private entity which is bound to nothing except the expectation to grow and benefit their share holders." If you want to entrench the western world to assume Google is a permanent fixture, you write laws and regulations that make that assumption and turn it into a publicly transparent utility. This is how Theodore Vail turned AT&T into a monopoly for nearly 80 years in the USA. It wasn't necessarily "bad", at least for the first 50 years, it consolidated and standardized service, and provided transparency. But AT&T eventually turned against us by blocking future competition, and it took 15 years of fights to break it up. Plus its "transparency" also developed the presumption of letting the government have access to its data carte blanche to spy on its citizens. Personally, I'd rather not have an organization possibly run by Donald Trump know too much about me. We could also break them up, or put anti-trust fetters on them, but that requires serious scrutiny before doing, as it might lead to massively unintended consequences. "Until facebook decides to shut down this api - which is at their sole discretion." Unlikely, given that API is the only reason anyone pays them money.

xg15 10y ago
They're not legislated as the Official Search Engine of the EU. Microsoft too once had 98% market share. As did IBM. And then what exactly happened? Did competitors beat them on their own market because of superior performance or better regards for the interests of users? Nope. They discovered new markets and solved new problems which made the old markets less relevant. It's not clear to me that this is a process that you can trust will work in the future. * Personally, I'd rather not have an organization possibly run by Donald Trump know too much about me.* You mean like Trump Ventures which owns stock of Google, Apple, AT&T, and Tesla (among many others)? "Until facebook decides to shut down this api - which is at their sole discretion." Unlikely, given that API is the only reason anyone pays them money. That argument makes no sense. I as a user don't benefit at all if some analytics company has a contract with Facebook that allows them to access my data. If users should realistically be able to migrate to another service, they need free and automatic access to their data - which Facebook is in no way forced to provide.
- parasubvert 10y ago
  "That argument makes no sense. I as a user don't benefit at all if some analytics company has a contract with Facebook that allows them to access my data. If users should realistically be able to migrate to another service, they need free and automatic access to their data - which Facebook is in no way forced to provide." That's not how it works. You have rights and easy access to your data - always have. 3rd parties don't get my PII unless I let them. Heck, I can download a ZIP file of everything I've ever uploaded with a single click! It makes zero sense they would prevent you from getting at it, if they did, they'd be breaking their own value prop of a place to share things, which by definition means people need to be able to get at it easily. Again, this stinks of non-customers trying to interfere with Facebook customers for dubious reasons out of fear.
  - xg15 10y ago
    You have rights and easy access to your data - always have. And who would enforce such a right if we have no governmental oversight? If they did, they'd be breaking their own value prop of a place to share things, which by definition means people need to be able to get at it easily. Facebook's value proposition is people sharing things within the platform. You can perfectly well provide that service and at the same time make it hard for users to migrate their data to a different platform. They already did it in the past. [1] Again, this stinks of non-customers trying to interfere with Facebook customers for dubious reasons out of fear. Indeed. In this case, the non-customers are Facebook's users and I believe the fear of entirely justified. [1] https://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-blocks-contact-exporting-tool/ https://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-blocks-contact-exporting-...
lkbm 10y ago
> Also, think of China, where Google has no market share. Baidu will grow and bide its time. That Google has no marketshare in China is due to governmental regulation. It's success is hardly evidence that we don't need governmental regulation.
- parasubvert 10y ago
  Trade regulation is a very different thing than government meddling with my data on a private site.

xg15 10y ago

They're not legislated as the Official Search Engine of the EU. Microsoft too once had 98% market share. As did IBM. And then what exactly happened? Did competitors beat them on their own market because of superior performance or better regards for the interests of users? Nope. They discovered new markets and solved new problems which made the old markets less relevant. It's not clear to me that this is a process that you can trust will work in the future. * Personally, I'd rather not have an organization possibly run by Donald Trump know too much about me.* You mean like Trump Ventures which owns stock of Google, Apple, AT&T, and Tesla (among many others)? "Until facebook decides to shut down this api - which is at their sole discretion." Unlikely, given that API is the only reason anyone pays them money. That argument makes no sense. I as a user don't benefit at all if some analytics company has a contract with Facebook that allows them to access my data. If users should realistically be able to migrate to another service, they need free and automatic access to their data - which Facebook is in no way forced to provide.

parasubvert 10y ago
"That argument makes no sense. I as a user don't benefit at all if some analytics company has a contract with Facebook that allows them to access my data. If users should realistically be able to migrate to another service, they need free and automatic access to their data - which Facebook is in no way forced to provide." That's not how it works. You have rights and easy access to your data - always have. 3rd parties don't get my PII unless I let them. Heck, I can download a ZIP file of everything I've ever uploaded with a single click! It makes zero sense they would prevent you from getting at it, if they did, they'd be breaking their own value prop of a place to share things, which by definition means people need to be able to get at it easily. Again, this stinks of non-customers trying to interfere with Facebook customers for dubious reasons out of fear.
- xg15 10y ago
  You have rights and easy access to your data - always have. And who would enforce such a right if we have no governmental oversight? If they did, they'd be breaking their own value prop of a place to share things, which by definition means people need to be able to get at it easily. Facebook's value proposition is people sharing things within the platform. You can perfectly well provide that service and at the same time make it hard for users to migrate their data to a different platform. They already did it in the past. [1] Again, this stinks of non-customers trying to interfere with Facebook customers for dubious reasons out of fear. Indeed. In this case, the non-customers are Facebook's users and I believe the fear of entirely justified. [1] https://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-blocks-contact-exporting-tool/ https://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-blocks-contact-exporting-...

lkbm 10y ago

> Also, think of China, where Google has no market share. Baidu will grow and bide its time. That Google has no marketshare in China is due to governmental regulation. It's success is hardly evidence that we don't need governmental regulation.

parasubvert 10y ago
Trade regulation is a very different thing than government meddling with my data on a private site.