13 ms·

A third of the homeless people in America are over 50 and I’m one of them

108 points by dwaxe 10y ago

known 10y ago
45% of USA is uninhabited :)
- pavlov 10y ago
  Is your solution for a 66-year-old homeless woman with multiple illnesses and who had cancer last year that she should move to the wilderness?
Cozumel 10y ago
A situation like that is almost unimaginable. Sounds like a potential idea for a startup/app though. If the author got together with another homeless person they could probably get an apartment between them.
- mcherm 10y ago
  I really like your approach: hear a problem, extend sympathy, but also propose a possible solution. Obviously your proposed solution has a lot of possible problems, but that doesn't mean they can't be solved.
- fencepost 10y ago
  Odds are good that she'll end up with a shared apartment, but she's already done that once (though not starting out with someone else homeless) and it didn't work out well. I suspect the biggest problem with finding another homeless person or two to share an apartment with is what she already ran into - for a lot of homeless there are mental health issues that may have led to them being homeless in the first place. Many who are homeless also are going to have a hard time covering even part of the cost of an apartment, particularly since it's going to be harder to find and keep a job without having a permanent place to stay in the first place. Finally, I suspect that many cities have limitations on how many unrelated adults can live in a single residential unit - something that for many it'd be easy to ignore, but for a small group of people it could make it very difficult to secure an initial lease unless one of the group members was able to demonstrate the resources to get the lease on their own anyway.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
bko 10y ago
> CeliaSue Hecht’s writing work has been featured in more than 40 local and national newspapers and magazines, on her dog travel blog, in newsletters, and in five romantic travel guides. She has traveled around the world and has written and led seminars and workshops in the US and Europe. Her travels have included about 245 cities. She can be contacted by email at prmatchmaker@yahoo.com or on her website celiasue.com. I'm a little confused. Her blog and personal site make it seem like it's more of a lifestyle choice than a victim of circumstance. Perhaps both? Anyway, I don't think social security was designed to be a complete retirement plan. I agree with the author about some laws discriminating those without permanent lodging (e.g. many places it's illegal to sleep in your car), but I hope that able and intelligent people take responsibility for their own retirement.
losteverything 10y ago
< I divorced my husband, In my county, the number one (by far) reason people are homeless is because of divorce. Marriage is a commitment and the second biggest choice one (usually) has to make.
- haneefmubarak 10y ago
  What's the first biggest one?
  - rahkiin 10y ago
    Getting children?
    - losteverything 10y ago
      Yes. If you have a child and how you rear him or her.
  - ch4s3 10y ago
    Which PokemonGo team to be on. /s They probably mean having children if I had to guess.
  - masterponomo 10y ago
    Team vi or Team Emacs.
    - throwaway1098 10y ago
      PC or Console
  - Unbeliever69 10y ago
    Eat out for cook in for dinner.
  - csomar 10y ago
    I'm guessing whether to end their life or not.
bko 10y ago
> CeliaSue Hecht’s writing work has been featured in more than 40 local and national newspapers and magazines, on her dog travel blog, in newsletters, and in five romantic travel guides. She has traveled around the world and has written and led seminars and workshops in the US and Europe. Her travels have included about 245 cities. She can be contacted by email at prmatchmaker@yahoo.com or on her website celiasue.com. I'm a little confused. Her blog and personal site make it seem like it's more of a lifestyle choice than a victim of circumstance. Perhaps both? Anyway, I don't think social security was designed to be a complete retirement plan. I agree with the author about some laws discriminating those without permanent lodging (e.g. many places it's illegal to sleep in your car), but I hope that able and intelligent people take responsibility for their own retirement.
- fencepost 10y ago
  I think that her blog and personal site are making the best of a bad situation. If she was focused there on homelessness it might have a major impact on her ability to get temporary, freelance or permanent work as well as on her readership and any income she can get from that. The fact that she's currently without a permanent residence doesn't change any of the other things you quoted, any more than someone taking a lower-skilled job during a downturn would mean that "working retail is a lifestyle choice."
- anexprogrammer 10y ago
  Well it doesn't sound like a choice. What makes you think so? The about text from a site that preceded the homelessness by some years? I don't know where cheap rentals are in the US (Detroit?), but presumably $600 a month isn't going to get there, pay rent, deposit and keep her alive.
  - Retric 10y ago
    People do live off of ~600$/month in the south west. No need for heating and you can get away without cooling. An acre of land is as low as ~1,000$ or so to buy. Add some minimal shelter, water, and minimal electricity plus some very minimal taxes.. It's not what I would call pleasant, their are few jobs, and transportation is an issue. However, basic food and shelter can be really cheap.
TeMPOraL 10y ago
I know it's nitpicking, but eyeballing the chart at http://www.census.gov/popclock/ http://www.census.gov/popclock/. > A third of the homeless people in America are over 50 So is the case for the entire population of America, it would seem.
- zajd 10y ago
  So?
  - kbart 10y ago
    So it implies that age is not a factor?
    - zajd 10y ago
      And? How does that dispute what's put forth in the article? "The percentage has spiked by almost 10 points since 2007 — in 2014"
      - kbart 10y ago
        If 1/3 of population is >50 years old, a random subset of this population is expected to have 1/3 of >50 years old as well. After reading this title, one could get an impression that this part is un-proportionally big, which is not.
        zajd 10y ago
        It wasn't as big 7 years ago. I don't get what's so hard about this to understand? The statistic grew from ~25% to 33%. This is noteworthy.
        kbart 10y ago
        "The statistic grew from ~25% to 33%. This is noteworthy." That's the whole point! Compare to, for example: "Homeless people in America that are over 50 increased by 30%". See the difference? "A third" is just what one would expect from pure statistics.
forgetsusername 10y ago
Alright, these situations are sad, and sometimes unavoidable due to what is essentially "bad luck". I can't imagine being caught in the vicious cycle. But I do take issue with: >The housing crash and its chilling effect on mortgage lending have hit the poor the hardest...Homeowners are being replacing by renters, as the American dream of owning your own property is becoming increasingly a luxury for the rich and upper middle class. Why should "the poor" have access to mortgages? Lending to poor people (NINJA loans, predatory loans) was a root cause of the housing collapse. Do people really think giving the poor mortgages is any kind of solution? It's a pretty common refrain on HackerNews that the "banksters" and (mostly, in reality) shady mortgage brokers took advantage of people by providing them with loans they couldn't afford. But, other times, this is seen as a good idea?
- exelius 10y ago
  > Alright, these situations are sad, and sometimes unavoidable due to what is essentially "bad luck". I can't imagine being caught in the vicious cycle. Social and societal safety nets are supposed to help with "bad luck". We all have bad luck from time to time, but imagine if all your close friends and relatives had died... you'd be in a really hard spot. > Why should "the poor" have access to mortgages? Lending to poor people (NINJA loans, predatory loans) was a root cause of the housing collapse. Do people really think giving the poor mortgages is any kind of solution? The issue is that there is a limited supply of affordable rental properties in many markets. This means that people who do have the money / credit to get loans can charge a huge renter's premium: there is a large segment of the market that simply doesn't have the option of getting a mortgage if the rent is too high. > It's a pretty common refrain on HackerNews that the "banksters" and (mostly, in reality) shady mortgage brokers took advantage of people by providing them with loans they couldn't afford. But, other times, this is seen as a good idea? Because they often pushed people towards larger loans than they could afford. Someone who can afford a $300k house was being pushed toward a $500k house with a ballooning payment. I'm all for poor people being able to buy homes they can afford. We'll ignore the fact that land value is correlated with location and the implications of that; but yes: home ownership should be in reach of every income level.
- xemdetia 10y ago
makomk 10y ago
Also, when you see the US press - including Vox - talk about how low unemployment is, bear in mind that she doesn't count as unemployed. When the fact checkers point at Trump's claims about unemployment and say they're lies, they're treating people like her who're forced into early retirement they can't afford because the jobs have gone away as success stories in the fight for full employment and insisting it's stupid to think otherwise. Even before she officially retired, she probably didn't count because she was still freelancing.
- vtlynch 10y ago
  Which is how they have always measured it, as far as I am unaware. While you may not like the measurement, this allows you to make actual comparisons to past years data, instead of comparing two different metrics.
  - dexterdog 10y ago
    They measure it many ways. They just report it with the lower statistical number so that it doesn't seem that bad. I would prefer all numbers to be given out. If I am the only person working in my family supporting 9 other people so that they can do other things we are not exhibiting 100% employment. 10% of the people are working to support the whole. If that works, great, but on the level of society as a whole you want to know all of the numbers.
    - mikeyouse 10y ago
      All numbers are given out.. In fact they're in the exact same report from the BLS every month. This is the most nonsensical conspiracy theory. We report U3 most widely because it matches the historical rate and the rate used by other countries in their reporting. If you prefer U4/5/6 just read one sentence further, is not like Trump's team found some deep government secret... Here's the table from the monthly report; http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm Or you could look at any of the data viz sources that are more user-friendly than the BLS to see trends; https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=7tTt https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=7tTt
jernfrost 10y ago
A sad read. It is provocative that one of the richest countries in the world can treat its unfortunate citizens in such a manner. But I guess that is what happens when you build a whole country on the myth that the life you get is completely your own choice. It is very odd how many American you read who state I don't need health insurance because I make sure I live healthy. That is about as intelligent as saying I don't need a seatbelt in my car because I drive safely. Many people utter words like that too. Perhaps it is simply something people want to believe in. They don't want to believe they can be the next victim. They want to believe everything is under control and they are master of their own faith. If you realize how much is out of your control it would be all too depressing to know how screwed you are going to be if you developed serious health problems, getting into serious accidents etc in the US. There is little safety-net to fall back on. I have a good job today, but I have period mental problems. I do worry about what would happen if I suddenly couldn't hack it anymore. What do you do when you got small children to provide for and you get screwed up in the head? Fortunately I know that because I live in Norway and not the US, there are limits to how far I can fall. I will never end up on the streets with my kids. They will still be able to go to good schools, and university whatever happens to me. That takes some stress away. I can not begin to imagine what it is like struggling in America and knowing that if you can't work, your whole life is over and the future of your children. It is surprising why American's don't want a proper welfare system. People buy insurance for their car and house. They buy health insurance. I pay higher taxes than Americans but I view that as the cost of having airtight insurance against the mishaps of life.
- oldmanjay 10y ago
  There sure are a lot of people who don't live here and carefully explain our attitudes to us as though the filters of bias are somehow pure perception. I used to get annoyed by it, but now I just find it endlessly amusing. If I were as clever as a feminist, I guess I could call it Eurosplaining.
  - Shivetya 10y ago
    well it helps them to talk down about American and over exaggerate the issues here so they can ignore what they don't want to see at home. There are enough horror stories everywhere that people fail to acknowledge, first world problems pale in comparison what people suffer in the non Western worlds. From complete lack of some basics we considering necessary to every day threats to their lives and property, should they even have the ability own anything.
peter303 10y ago
She needs to talk to a social worker because she is not claiming all her senior benefits. First the minimal SSI is 733, a bit above her regular SS check. Second, she automatically qualifies for almost free medicaid. Plus when you qualify for either of these its easier to get other poverty benefits like food stamps, housing assistance and a free cell phone. Sometimes people go into victim-pity mode and dont claim everything available.
- rkangel 10y ago
  She says she's had to go to a hospital a lot, so she's probably on cheap/free healthcare (or she wouldn't be able to have it). She says she gets foodstamps. She may well have a free cellphone. By the sounds of the article she isn't passive and actively looks for ways to improve her situation.
  - agumonkey 10y ago
    Also in the storm it's easy to forget to ask for every possible aid. And probably avoid asking for more if you're already given some, to actually avoid being seen as more of a leech that you feel being.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
benbenolson 10y ago
Yes, this is a horrible situation that she is in, and it's extremely sad. However, Social Security is not meant to be lived on; it's meant to simply be a supplement to a retirement that the individual was saving up for their entire working life. Let this simply be a lesson to put money away for retirement, as people have successfully done for centuries.
- jernfrost 10y ago
  You can't save up for mishaps of life. Chronic disease, cancer can cost a lot more money than people can save up. That is why you buy insurance in case your house burns down. Catastrophic events are not things you can save up for in advance. Do you suppose that people should save up for in case their car crashes or their house burns down? Of course not. The whole point of insurance is that most people pay in more than they get back. A few take out way more money than they put in. That is acceptable because those who pay more, get safety in return. That is the whole point of a welfare system. Most pay more in than they get back, but they get safety back. They get the certainty that if their life should get screwed up by chronic disease, accidents etc, then there is something to fall back on.
- cloudjacker 10y ago
  It wouldnt matter, she went over a decade living off savings and getting by without the journaling gigs she built her career on. Even in your personal finance pro world you would fail to avoid this exact situation
tluyben2 10y ago
Sad read and hope to never see anyone close to me have to go through this, but; why stay in a city? It must be cheaper to live in some town far from cities? At least here you would not only be able to live of your the money she has in a village and no one would bother you if you sleep in your car outside a village. Not sure how that is in the US but i would imagine it makes a difference outside cities. And then ofcourse; how many close friends do you have; i have many friends and family who would all just rent a house for me. Or let me stay at theirs. Not one but well i could think of at least 20 people who would not hesitate; am i lucky or did she just connect with very few people?
- Jasamba 10y ago
  Most of whom are dead I'm presume, and her circles were/are perhaps composed of similar freelancers who are also barely scraping by, though not homeless and thus not in a position to help given limited retirement funds?
- nojvek 10y ago
  Wow I guess you are lucky. If I died today, there's probably less than 10 people who would come to my cremation. Sad I know but I'm okay with that. I do relate to the dog though, they are amazing companions. I would really worry about depression if he passes away.
  - dexterdog 10y ago
    Do people go to a cremation?
    - GreatPowers 10y ago
      Maybe people who hate you? "Burn you piece of shit!"
    - tluyben2 10y ago
      Here they do.
joshuaheard 10y ago
A quick search on Apartment Finder for a random city like Albuquerque, NM shows apartments for under $300 per month. She is receiving $672 per month in Social Security. It seems to me she can afford housing. http://www.apartmentfinder.com/New-Mexico/Albuquerque-Apartments/q/?xr=600&sr=2 http://www.apartmentfinder.com/New-Mexico/Albuquerque-Apartm...
- dexterdog 10y ago
  She would probably have to get rid of her dog.
  - csomar 10y ago
    > She would probably have to get rid of her dog. > Dexterdog Is this a coincidence?
nojvek 10y ago
I've been personally thinking what I would do if I were in such a situation. If I had to purely rely on govt funds and found it very hard to get by. I can't imagine. I can see why so many people want trump. He feeds on the anger at how broken this country is.
- innertracks 10y ago
  From experience in the Seattle area, if you are in the USA you can get yourself passes for state and/or federal parks. In Washington state for example with a Discover Pass ($30 annual fee) you can park overnight for I believe up to two weeks. Not sure about the federal parks. Much cheaper than motels and no harassment from law enforcement. You're just camping! Move around as needed. Edit: pass fee.
throwaway1098 10y ago
I live in a Van. Mid 30s junior software developer who's kinda regretting taking the CS path at this late age. However, that as it may be, it's really not that bad. I shower at a gym at I'm rarely home anyways, usually doing things so I really just need a place to sleep which I don't feel paying 800 a month is worth. The only issue is authorized places to park. There's a lot of us vehicle dwellers there's a whole sub-reddit /r/vandwellers devoted to it. I think it's an growing problem and solution to massive housing shortages that are just going to get worse. How big of a deal is it to have parking lots for 'liveaboards'? You can obviously have applications to weed out troublemakers like any other apartment complex. This might be a very interesting sort of start up.
- no_flags 10y ago
  Do you live in a van by choice or because you cannot afford other housing?
- usr 10y ago
  Your idea about a parking lot for "liveaboards" sounds kind of cool. Or how about an airbnb-like service where people offer up part of their yard for people to park their van or pitch a tent. Especially in more rural areas where people have a lot of land that is just sitting there and other people could take advantage of it. And I'm also curious, in what ways do you regret taking the CS path at your age? Did you just get your CS degree? Are you experiencing a lot of ageism?
jedmeyers 10y ago
Ah, another resident of a homogeneous country with 13% of the population of California with vast amounts of oil is telling everyone else how their country should be organized. It's like the only son of a rich lawyer telling his college buddy, from the worker's family of seven: "why do you still drive that 2002 Accord, clearly my brand new BMW M5 is much better! It's surprising you poor people don't want a proper car"
- totalZero 10y ago
  Just about every one of us is culturally indoctrinated with a list of necessities and norms. It's interesting to see what happens when people who received different lists bump into one another.
  - AstralStorm 10y ago
    About as interesting as watching train accidents. After the first few, they all start to look the same with minor variants.
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  What does cultural homogeneity have anything to do with the way a country treats its homeless? Also, while Norway may be rich in natural resources, so is the USA. So I'm not entirely certain how that matters either.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - mfoy_ 10y ago
    American Exceptionalism is the card being played here. It effectively means: "Our country is fundamentally different from your country, so what works for you won't necessarily work for us. Your success or failure is no reason for us to follow your example." Often this card is played despite the "fundamental differences" not necessarily being all that pronounced, or all that relevant. No two countries on this planet are identical, yet an astounding number of policies translate generally well despite that.
phodo 10y ago
This was very sad to read. I was wondering why - given the fact that she has a car - she doesn't drive for Lyft or Uber. Maybe it is because her car is filled with her living stuff, or hygiene reasons. These are assumptions that might not be true. Let's assume that she is able to meet the qualifications of a driver. Would Uber and Lyft block her application because she doesn't have a home? I wonder if this is something the Ubers / Lyfts can do - employing homeless drivers - to help people get back on their feet.
- AstralStorm 10y ago
  This, even if possible, would quickly kill her car and make her additionally homeless. Uber and Lyft drivers not in premium service are not paid enough to get maintenance. Also, an older person requires often psychological and technical checks to see if they still can drive at all. In EU those are mandatory after 60 years to keep your licence at all, earlier in pro drivers.
adrianlmm 10y ago
That is why my priority is to have a home of my own, so at the end it won't matter if I'm broke, I'll still have a roof over my head.
ErikAugust 10y ago
I'm working on a piece about living in my truck. I live in a major metro area (not a top five most expensive however), as a software developer making over six figures. It's impossible to find rent for under $900/month. My anger boiled over when someone wanted $975/month for a 6 month lease for a 350 square foot "studio" that has no kitchen. Yet, supposedly there are 18 million vacant homes in the United States [1]. It's time to put together an Airbnb for these vacant units that provide the new transients of America with affordable and safe places to stay. Interested in helping, or just want to have a conversation about this topic, check out my profile. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/EVACANTUSQ176N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/EVACANTUSQ176N Additional info from the Census: http://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/index.html http://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/index.html
- Mc_Big_G 10y ago
  Honest question. You make over $100k and can't afford > $1k/month for rent. Why? Because you morally object to the cost or because you can't afford it?
  - ErikAugust 10y ago
    I can easily afford it. I object.
throw2016 10y ago
Most of these threads end up with dry platitudes about living carefully or demonizing homeless people as mentally imbalanced or irresponsible. There is no concept of victim or adverse circumstances and zero sense of the collective. It is denial. For other countries poverty is a problem to be solved, for the US it's identity, something everyone wants to wish away. The first modern dystopia will be here, the idealogy of selfishness, greed, wealth and narcissism may benefit some individuals but leaves no space for a community to form and a culture that is not only bereft of empathy but positively despises it.
avyfain 10y ago
According to Wikipedia[0], a third (~32%) of the people in the US are over 50, so without reading the article this is roughly what you should expect. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_State...
Fej 10y ago
We will have our safety net eventually. The pendulum of hopefully slowly swinging to the left. Until then, folks like her are fucked.
agumonkey 10y ago
Quick question, is the illegal car sleep law universal or are there subtleties ? I can understand cities wanting to have quiet streets at night and avoid people ending up in cars after parties etc, but for a homeless person there should be a special case.
- AstralStorm 10y ago
  The law is probably meant to keep parking space from being permanently occupied. I bet it's legal to sleep in a car parked outside the road and not in a generally public space such as a park. (that's loitering)
  - agumonkey 10y ago
    Aight but preventing "forever parked" spots isn't the same as forbidding sleeping in a car for a homeless person. If a police officer realizes that person has no home, will they direct them toward another spot or give them a fine, or take them into a precinct ?

108 points by dwaxe 10y ago

known 10y ago

45% of USA is uninhabited :)

pavlov 10y ago
Is your solution for a 66-year-old homeless woman with multiple illnesses and who had cancer last year that she should move to the wilderness?

Cozumel 10y ago

A situation like that is almost unimaginable. Sounds like a potential idea for a startup/app though. If the author got together with another homeless person they could probably get an apartment between them.

mcherm 10y ago
I really like your approach: hear a problem, extend sympathy, but also propose a possible solution. Obviously your proposed solution has a lot of possible problems, but that doesn't mean they can't be solved.
fencepost 10y ago
Odds are good that she'll end up with a shared apartment, but she's already done that once (though not starting out with someone else homeless) and it didn't work out well. I suspect the biggest problem with finding another homeless person or two to share an apartment with is what she already ran into - for a lot of homeless there are mental health issues that may have led to them being homeless in the first place. Many who are homeless also are going to have a hard time covering even part of the cost of an apartment, particularly since it's going to be harder to find and keep a job without having a permanent place to stay in the first place. Finally, I suspect that many cities have limitations on how many unrelated adults can live in a single residential unit - something that for many it'd be easy to ignore, but for a small group of people it could make it very difficult to secure an initial lease unless one of the group members was able to demonstrate the resources to get the lease on their own anyway.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

bko 10y ago

> CeliaSue Hecht’s writing work has been featured in more than 40 local and national newspapers and magazines, on her dog travel blog, in newsletters, and in five romantic travel guides. She has traveled around the world and has written and led seminars and workshops in the US and Europe. Her travels have included about 245 cities. She can be contacted by email at prmatchmaker@yahoo.com or on her website celiasue.com. I'm a little confused. Her blog and personal site make it seem like it's more of a lifestyle choice than a victim of circumstance. Perhaps both? Anyway, I don't think social security was designed to be a complete retirement plan. I agree with the author about some laws discriminating those without permanent lodging (e.g. many places it's illegal to sleep in your car), but I hope that able and intelligent people take responsibility for their own retirement.

losteverything 10y ago

< I divorced my husband, In my county, the number one (by far) reason people are homeless is because of divorce. Marriage is a commitment and the second biggest choice one (usually) has to make.

haneefmubarak 10y ago
What's the first biggest one?
- rahkiin 10y ago
  Getting children?
  - losteverything 10y ago
    Yes. If you have a child and how you rear him or her.
- ch4s3 10y ago
  Which PokemonGo team to be on. /s They probably mean having children if I had to guess.
- masterponomo 10y ago
  Team vi or Team Emacs.
  - throwaway1098 10y ago
    PC or Console
- Unbeliever69 10y ago
  Eat out for cook in for dinner.
- csomar 10y ago
  I'm guessing whether to end their life or not.

bko 10y ago

fencepost 10y ago
I think that her blog and personal site are making the best of a bad situation. If she was focused there on homelessness it might have a major impact on her ability to get temporary, freelance or permanent work as well as on her readership and any income she can get from that. The fact that she's currently without a permanent residence doesn't change any of the other things you quoted, any more than someone taking a lower-skilled job during a downturn would mean that "working retail is a lifestyle choice."
anexprogrammer 10y ago
Well it doesn't sound like a choice. What makes you think so? The about text from a site that preceded the homelessness by some years? I don't know where cheap rentals are in the US (Detroit?), but presumably $600 a month isn't going to get there, pay rent, deposit and keep her alive.
- Retric 10y ago
  People do live off of ~600$/month in the south west. No need for heating and you can get away without cooling. An acre of land is as low as ~1,000$ or so to buy. Add some minimal shelter, water, and minimal electricity plus some very minimal taxes.. It's not what I would call pleasant, their are few jobs, and transportation is an issue. However, basic food and shelter can be really cheap.

TeMPOraL 10y ago

I know it's nitpicking, but eyeballing the chart at http://www.census.gov/popclock/ http://www.census.gov/popclock/. > A third of the homeless people in America are over 50 So is the case for the entire population of America, it would seem.

zajd 10y ago
So?
- kbart 10y ago
  So it implies that age is not a factor?
  - zajd 10y ago
    And? How does that dispute what's put forth in the article? "The percentage has spiked by almost 10 points since 2007 — in 2014"
    - kbart 10y ago
      If 1/3 of population is >50 years old, a random subset of this population is expected to have 1/3 of >50 years old as well. After reading this title, one could get an impression that this part is un-proportionally big, which is not.
      - zajd 10y ago
        It wasn't as big 7 years ago. I don't get what's so hard about this to understand? The statistic grew from ~25% to 33%. This is noteworthy.
        kbart 10y ago
        "The statistic grew from ~25% to 33%. This is noteworthy." That's the whole point! Compare to, for example: "Homeless people in America that are over 50 increased by 30%". See the difference? "A third" is just what one would expect from pure statistics.

forgetsusername 10y ago

Alright, these situations are sad, and sometimes unavoidable due to what is essentially "bad luck". I can't imagine being caught in the vicious cycle. But I do take issue with: >The housing crash and its chilling effect on mortgage lending have hit the poor the hardest...Homeowners are being replacing by renters, as the American dream of owning your own property is becoming increasingly a luxury for the rich and upper middle class. Why should "the poor" have access to mortgages? Lending to poor people (NINJA loans, predatory loans) was a root cause of the housing collapse. Do people really think giving the poor mortgages is any kind of solution? It's a pretty common refrain on HackerNews that the "banksters" and (mostly, in reality) shady mortgage brokers took advantage of people by providing them with loans they couldn't afford. But, other times, this is seen as a good idea?

exelius 10y ago
> Alright, these situations are sad, and sometimes unavoidable due to what is essentially "bad luck". I can't imagine being caught in the vicious cycle. Social and societal safety nets are supposed to help with "bad luck". We all have bad luck from time to time, but imagine if all your close friends and relatives had died... you'd be in a really hard spot. > Why should "the poor" have access to mortgages? Lending to poor people (NINJA loans, predatory loans) was a root cause of the housing collapse. Do people really think giving the poor mortgages is any kind of solution? The issue is that there is a limited supply of affordable rental properties in many markets. This means that people who do have the money / credit to get loans can charge a huge renter's premium: there is a large segment of the market that simply doesn't have the option of getting a mortgage if the rent is too high. > It's a pretty common refrain on HackerNews that the "banksters" and (mostly, in reality) shady mortgage brokers took advantage of people by providing them with loans they couldn't afford. But, other times, this is seen as a good idea? Because they often pushed people towards larger loans than they could afford. Someone who can afford a $300k house was being pushed toward a $500k house with a ballooning payment. I'm all for poor people being able to buy homes they can afford. We'll ignore the fact that land value is correlated with location and the implications of that; but yes: home ownership should be in reach of every income level.
xemdetia 10y ago

makomk 10y ago

Also, when you see the US press - including Vox - talk about how low unemployment is, bear in mind that she doesn't count as unemployed. When the fact checkers point at Trump's claims about unemployment and say they're lies, they're treating people like her who're forced into early retirement they can't afford because the jobs have gone away as success stories in the fight for full employment and insisting it's stupid to think otherwise. Even before she officially retired, she probably didn't count because she was still freelancing.

vtlynch 10y ago
Which is how they have always measured it, as far as I am unaware. While you may not like the measurement, this allows you to make actual comparisons to past years data, instead of comparing two different metrics.
- dexterdog 10y ago
  They measure it many ways. They just report it with the lower statistical number so that it doesn't seem that bad. I would prefer all numbers to be given out. If I am the only person working in my family supporting 9 other people so that they can do other things we are not exhibiting 100% employment. 10% of the people are working to support the whole. If that works, great, but on the level of society as a whole you want to know all of the numbers.
  - mikeyouse 10y ago
    All numbers are given out.. In fact they're in the exact same report from the BLS every month. This is the most nonsensical conspiracy theory. We report U3 most widely because it matches the historical rate and the rate used by other countries in their reporting. If you prefer U4/5/6 just read one sentence further, is not like Trump's team found some deep government secret... Here's the table from the monthly report; http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm Or you could look at any of the data viz sources that are more user-friendly than the BLS to see trends; https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=7tTt https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=7tTt

jernfrost 10y ago

A sad read. It is provocative that one of the richest countries in the world can treat its unfortunate citizens in such a manner. But I guess that is what happens when you build a whole country on the myth that the life you get is completely your own choice. It is very odd how many American you read who state I don't need health insurance because I make sure I live healthy. That is about as intelligent as saying I don't need a seatbelt in my car because I drive safely. Many people utter words like that too. Perhaps it is simply something people want to believe in. They don't want to believe they can be the next victim. They want to believe everything is under control and they are master of their own faith. If you realize how much is out of your control it would be all too depressing to know how screwed you are going to be if you developed serious health problems, getting into serious accidents etc in the US. There is little safety-net to fall back on. I have a good job today, but I have period mental problems. I do worry about what would happen if I suddenly couldn't hack it anymore. What do you do when you got small children to provide for and you get screwed up in the head? Fortunately I know that because I live in Norway and not the US, there are limits to how far I can fall. I will never end up on the streets with my kids. They will still be able to go to good schools, and university whatever happens to me. That takes some stress away. I can not begin to imagine what it is like struggling in America and knowing that if you can't work, your whole life is over and the future of your children. It is surprising why American's don't want a proper welfare system. People buy insurance for their car and house. They buy health insurance. I pay higher taxes than Americans but I view that as the cost of having airtight insurance against the mishaps of life.

oldmanjay 10y ago
There sure are a lot of people who don't live here and carefully explain our attitudes to us as though the filters of bias are somehow pure perception. I used to get annoyed by it, but now I just find it endlessly amusing. If I were as clever as a feminist, I guess I could call it Eurosplaining.
- Shivetya 10y ago
  well it helps them to talk down about American and over exaggerate the issues here so they can ignore what they don't want to see at home. There are enough horror stories everywhere that people fail to acknowledge, first world problems pale in comparison what people suffer in the non Western worlds. From complete lack of some basics we considering necessary to every day threats to their lives and property, should they even have the ability own anything.

peter303 10y ago

She needs to talk to a social worker because she is not claiming all her senior benefits. First the minimal SSI is 733, a bit above her regular SS check. Second, she automatically qualifies for almost free medicaid. Plus when you qualify for either of these its easier to get other poverty benefits like food stamps, housing assistance and a free cell phone. Sometimes people go into victim-pity mode and dont claim everything available.

rkangel 10y ago
She says she's had to go to a hospital a lot, so she's probably on cheap/free healthcare (or she wouldn't be able to have it). She says she gets foodstamps. She may well have a free cellphone. By the sounds of the article she isn't passive and actively looks for ways to improve her situation.
- agumonkey 10y ago
  Also in the storm it's easy to forget to ask for every possible aid. And probably avoid asking for more if you're already given some, to actually avoid being seen as more of a leech that you feel being.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

benbenolson 10y ago

Yes, this is a horrible situation that she is in, and it's extremely sad. However, Social Security is not meant to be lived on; it's meant to simply be a supplement to a retirement that the individual was saving up for their entire working life. Let this simply be a lesson to put money away for retirement, as people have successfully done for centuries.

jernfrost 10y ago
You can't save up for mishaps of life. Chronic disease, cancer can cost a lot more money than people can save up. That is why you buy insurance in case your house burns down. Catastrophic events are not things you can save up for in advance. Do you suppose that people should save up for in case their car crashes or their house burns down? Of course not. The whole point of insurance is that most people pay in more than they get back. A few take out way more money than they put in. That is acceptable because those who pay more, get safety in return. That is the whole point of a welfare system. Most pay more in than they get back, but they get safety back. They get the certainty that if their life should get screwed up by chronic disease, accidents etc, then there is something to fall back on.
cloudjacker 10y ago
It wouldnt matter, she went over a decade living off savings and getting by without the journaling gigs she built her career on. Even in your personal finance pro world you would fail to avoid this exact situation

tluyben2 10y ago

Sad read and hope to never see anyone close to me have to go through this, but; why stay in a city? It must be cheaper to live in some town far from cities? At least here you would not only be able to live of your the money she has in a village and no one would bother you if you sleep in your car outside a village. Not sure how that is in the US but i would imagine it makes a difference outside cities. And then ofcourse; how many close friends do you have; i have many friends and family who would all just rent a house for me. Or let me stay at theirs. Not one but well i could think of at least 20 people who would not hesitate; am i lucky or did she just connect with very few people?

Jasamba 10y ago
Most of whom are dead I'm presume, and her circles were/are perhaps composed of similar freelancers who are also barely scraping by, though not homeless and thus not in a position to help given limited retirement funds?
nojvek 10y ago
Wow I guess you are lucky. If I died today, there's probably less than 10 people who would come to my cremation. Sad I know but I'm okay with that. I do relate to the dog though, they are amazing companions. I would really worry about depression if he passes away.
- dexterdog 10y ago
  Do people go to a cremation?
  - GreatPowers 10y ago
    Maybe people who hate you? "Burn you piece of shit!"
  - tluyben2 10y ago
    Here they do.

joshuaheard 10y ago

A quick search on Apartment Finder for a random city like Albuquerque, NM shows apartments for under $300 per month. She is receiving $672 per month in Social Security. It seems to me she can afford housing. http://www.apartmentfinder.com/New-Mexico/Albuquerque-Apartments/q/?xr=600&sr=2 http://www.apartmentfinder.com/New-Mexico/Albuquerque-Apartm...

dexterdog 10y ago
She would probably have to get rid of her dog.
- csomar 10y ago
  > She would probably have to get rid of her dog. > Dexterdog Is this a coincidence?

nojvek 10y ago

I've been personally thinking what I would do if I were in such a situation. If I had to purely rely on govt funds and found it very hard to get by. I can't imagine. I can see why so many people want trump. He feeds on the anger at how broken this country is.

innertracks 10y ago
From experience in the Seattle area, if you are in the USA you can get yourself passes for state and/or federal parks. In Washington state for example with a Discover Pass ($30 annual fee) you can park overnight for I believe up to two weeks. Not sure about the federal parks. Much cheaper than motels and no harassment from law enforcement. You're just camping! Move around as needed. Edit: pass fee.

throwaway1098 10y ago

I live in a Van. Mid 30s junior software developer who's kinda regretting taking the CS path at this late age. However, that as it may be, it's really not that bad. I shower at a gym at I'm rarely home anyways, usually doing things so I really just need a place to sleep which I don't feel paying 800 a month is worth. The only issue is authorized places to park. There's a lot of us vehicle dwellers there's a whole sub-reddit /r/vandwellers devoted to it. I think it's an growing problem and solution to massive housing shortages that are just going to get worse. How big of a deal is it to have parking lots for 'liveaboards'? You can obviously have applications to weed out troublemakers like any other apartment complex. This might be a very interesting sort of start up.

no_flags 10y ago
Do you live in a van by choice or because you cannot afford other housing?
usr 10y ago
Your idea about a parking lot for "liveaboards" sounds kind of cool. Or how about an airbnb-like service where people offer up part of their yard for people to park their van or pitch a tent. Especially in more rural areas where people have a lot of land that is just sitting there and other people could take advantage of it. And I'm also curious, in what ways do you regret taking the CS path at your age? Did you just get your CS degree? Are you experiencing a lot of ageism?

jedmeyers 10y ago

Ah, another resident of a homogeneous country with 13% of the population of California with vast amounts of oil is telling everyone else how their country should be organized. It's like the only son of a rich lawyer telling his college buddy, from the worker's family of seven: "why do you still drive that 2002 Accord, clearly my brand new BMW M5 is much better! It's surprising you poor people don't want a proper car"

totalZero 10y ago
Just about every one of us is culturally indoctrinated with a list of necessities and norms. It's interesting to see what happens when people who received different lists bump into one another.
- AstralStorm 10y ago
  About as interesting as watching train accidents. After the first few, they all start to look the same with minor variants.
enraged_camel 10y ago
What does cultural homogeneity have anything to do with the way a country treats its homeless? Also, while Norway may be rich in natural resources, so is the USA. So I'm not entirely certain how that matters either.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- mfoy_ 10y ago
  American Exceptionalism is the card being played here. It effectively means: "Our country is fundamentally different from your country, so what works for you won't necessarily work for us. Your success or failure is no reason for us to follow your example." Often this card is played despite the "fundamental differences" not necessarily being all that pronounced, or all that relevant. No two countries on this planet are identical, yet an astounding number of policies translate generally well despite that.

phodo 10y ago

This was very sad to read. I was wondering why - given the fact that she has a car - she doesn't drive for Lyft or Uber. Maybe it is because her car is filled with her living stuff, or hygiene reasons. These are assumptions that might not be true. Let's assume that she is able to meet the qualifications of a driver. Would Uber and Lyft block her application because she doesn't have a home? I wonder if this is something the Ubers / Lyfts can do - employing homeless drivers - to help people get back on their feet.

AstralStorm 10y ago
This, even if possible, would quickly kill her car and make her additionally homeless. Uber and Lyft drivers not in premium service are not paid enough to get maintenance. Also, an older person requires often psychological and technical checks to see if they still can drive at all. In EU those are mandatory after 60 years to keep your licence at all, earlier in pro drivers.

adrianlmm 10y ago

That is why my priority is to have a home of my own, so at the end it won't matter if I'm broke, I'll still have a roof over my head.

ErikAugust 10y ago

I'm working on a piece about living in my truck. I live in a major metro area (not a top five most expensive however), as a software developer making over six figures. It's impossible to find rent for under $900/month. My anger boiled over when someone wanted $975/month for a 6 month lease for a 350 square foot "studio" that has no kitchen. Yet, supposedly there are 18 million vacant homes in the United States [1]. It's time to put together an Airbnb for these vacant units that provide the new transients of America with affordable and safe places to stay. Interested in helping, or just want to have a conversation about this topic, check out my profile. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/EVACANTUSQ176N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/EVACANTUSQ176N Additional info from the Census: http://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/index.html http://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/index.html

Mc_Big_G 10y ago
Honest question. You make over $100k and can't afford > $1k/month for rent. Why? Because you morally object to the cost or because you can't afford it?
- ErikAugust 10y ago
  I can easily afford it. I object.

throw2016 10y ago

Most of these threads end up with dry platitudes about living carefully or demonizing homeless people as mentally imbalanced or irresponsible. There is no concept of victim or adverse circumstances and zero sense of the collective. It is denial. For other countries poverty is a problem to be solved, for the US it's identity, something everyone wants to wish away. The first modern dystopia will be here, the idealogy of selfishness, greed, wealth and narcissism may benefit some individuals but leaves no space for a community to form and a culture that is not only bereft of empathy but positively despises it.

avyfain 10y ago

According to Wikipedia[0], a third (~32%) of the people in the US are over 50, so without reading the article this is roughly what you should expect. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_State...

Fej 10y ago

We will have our safety net eventually. The pendulum of hopefully slowly swinging to the left. Until then, folks like her are fucked.

agumonkey 10y ago

Quick question, is the illegal car sleep law universal or are there subtleties ? I can understand cities wanting to have quiet streets at night and avoid people ending up in cars after parties etc, but for a homeless person there should be a special case.

AstralStorm 10y ago
The law is probably meant to keep parking space from being permanently occupied. I bet it's legal to sleep in a car parked outside the road and not in a generally public space such as a park. (that's loitering)
- agumonkey 10y ago
  Aight but preventing "forever parked" spots isn't the same as forbidding sleeping in a car for a homeless person. If a police officer realizes that person has no home, will they direct them toward another spot or give them a fine, or take them into a precinct ?